Keys to Legal Success in Finance With Neil O’Donnell

December 4, 2024 | Written by Gladiator Law Marketing

Neil O’Donnell is the Managing Partner at Legal Scale, a boutique firm specializing in private equity transactions, fund formation, and corporate governance. With a JD/MBA from Cornell University and degrees in Biomedical Engineering from Johns Hopkins, Neil combines legal expertise with a strong foundation in business and finance. His career spans roles in top law firms, including Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP, and ventures in international capital deployment. Neil is also a CFA and CAIA charter holder and is admitted to the bar in multiple states across the US.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[01:24] Neil O’Donnell shares how his parents inspired him to become an attorney
[03:17] The founding story and early days of Legal Scale
[07:24] Balancing detail-oriented work with the broader strategic aspects of the practice
[08:40] A major challenge Neil faced with Legal Scale and how he overcame it
[11:01] The challenges of working in international jurisdictions
[12:10] Neil talks about the case that impacted him the most
[13:37] Essential qualities needed to succeed in private equity law
[17:03] AI’s transformative role in legal services today
[22:59] Neil’s advice to young lawyers aspiring to enter the world of finance law

In this episode…

The legal landscape in finance constantly evolves, with new technologies, regulations, and market challenges reshaping how businesses operate. How can legal professionals and entrepreneurs navigate this complexity while maintaining a strategic edge? What are the key elements to achieving success in this dynamic field?

According to Neil O’Donnell, a seasoned legal expert with a deep understanding of corporate and financial law, success requires balancing legal precision with strategic foresight. He highlights the importance of leveraging technology, including AI, to streamline processes while maintaining the human expertise essential for nuanced decision-making. This combination of efficiency and expertise helps firms like his deliver high-value results to clients. Neil also underscores the significance of fostering strong professional relationships and adapting to global regulatory challenges, which often demand innovative solutions tailored to local markets.

In this episode of 15 Minutes, host Chad Franzen sits down with Neil O’Donnell, Managing Partner at Legal Scale, to discuss the keys to legal success in finance. They explore the transformative role of AI in law, strategies for navigating global financial regulations, and the importance of building trust and collaboration in the legal profession. Neil also shares advice for aspiring attorneys looking to thrive in this competitive space.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Chad Franzen on LinkedIn
Gladiator Law Marketing
Neil O’Donnell: LinkedIn | Email
Legal Scale: Website | Contact no.: (646) 685-3753

Special Mentions

Quotable Moments

“I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer and run my own firm, but I also liked business.”
“Legal Scale came about when myself and my partner thought there could be a way to work with emerging clients engaging in private transactions.”
“Persistence, number one, is incredibly important. Second, I think being collaborative is just incredibly important.”
“AI will have an enormous impact. Everyone on my team is amazed by the capacity of AI at this point.”
“The single best thing I have from Cornell was the relationships that came out of law school and business school.”

Action Steps

Cultivate strong relationships: Building and maintaining strong professional relationships is crucial in the legal field. These relationships can provide valuable connections and support, which are often more critical to long-term success than individual achievements or grades.
Leverage AI and technology: Integrating AI tools into your practice can significantly enhance efficiency, particularly in research and document review. Staying updated with technological advancements allows legal professionals to remain competitive and adapt to industry changes.
Embrace specialization: In an evolving legal landscape, specialization is becoming increasingly important, especially in niche fields like private equity and finance. By focusing on specialized areas, you can offer more in-depth expertise and differentiated services to clients.
Develop collaborative skills: Collaboration is essential for successful transactions, and fostering a cooperative environment can lead to better outcomes for all parties involved. This approach not only facilitates smoother deal-making but also enhances professional relationships, which are vital in the legal industry.
Focus on corporate governance: Understanding and implementing robust corporate governance principles is critical in ensuring compliance and achieving client objectives. By aligning governance structures with clients’ needs, legal professionals can provide strategic value and navigate complex transactions effectively.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, where we deliver tailor-made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential.

To have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI, your firm needs to have a better website and better content. At Gladiator Law Marketing, we use artificial intelligence, machine learning, and decades of experience to outperform the competition.

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Episode Transcript

Intro 00:01

You’re listening to 15 Minutes, where we feature community leaders sharing what the rest of us should know, but likely don’t.

Chad Franzen 00:05

Hi, Chad Franzen here, one of the hosts of Share Your Voice, where we talk with top notch law firms and lawyers about what it takes to grow a successful law practice. This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, delivering tailor made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential. To have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI, your firm needs to have a better website and better content. Gladiator Law marketing uses artificial intelligence, machine learning, and decades of experience to outperform the competition. To learn more, go to GladiatorLawMarketing.Com where you can schedule a free marketing consultation. Neil O’Donnell, a Founding Partner at Legal Scale, specializes in private equity transactions, fund formation and corporate governance. He has a diverse background, including experience in raising and deploying capital for cell tower ground lease acquisitions in South America. Neil’s tenure at Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP enhanced his expertise in restructuring and equity derivatives with admissions in in the to the bar in multiple states. Neil is known for his entrepreneurial spirit and innovative approach to law. Hey, Neil, thanks for joining me today. How are you?

Neil O’Donnell 01:18

I’m doing very well. Thank you so much for the introduction.

Chad Franzen 01:20

Hey, tell me, how did how and when did you know you wanted to become an attorney?

Neil O’Donnell 01:24

That’s a great question. Actually, both my parents are attorneys. They met at law school. So I was always familiar with the personal power of being an attorney. My dad and my my mom joined my my father’s law firm. So my dad started his law firm now, I think, more than 30 years ago. And it was really a pillar of the community. In the Wilkes-Barre Scranton area where I’m from. And so I always knew that I wanted to to be a lawyer and to run my own firm, but I wanted I also liked business. And so for me to to run a corporate boutique firm like the one that I run marries is my, you know, excellent experience interning with and working alongside my dad at his firm. Plus my interest in business and corporate work.

Chad Franzen 02:06

Very nice. So take us through kind of your journey into the legal industry prior to, you know, starting Legal Scale?

Neil O’Donnell 02:14

Sure. So, you know, we I received my I knew I wanted to do corporate work, so I received my JD, MBA at Cornell Law School. It was a great program that I was actually able to complete in three years. So there’s no opportunity cost over getting a traditional three year JD. I knew I wanted to work in finance, work in a great spot to be for equity, equity and equity derivatives work was Davis Polk, where I started my career, and it was really a fantastic place to to learn and obtain corporate hygiene, to work on transactions that were in the newspaper and to do so in a very open, collegial environment. Davis Polk, at that time was lockstep on both the attorney level and at the partner level, which was which, which was unique in actually is no longer the case. It really engendered a very collaborative atmosphere where I could work on a large number of transactions and understand exactly how those and understand exactly how transactions worked and how to complete them, and how to be a person that that could drive a transaction to completion.

Chad Franzen 03:17

Okay. Very nice. So then how how did Legal Scale come about? And tell me a little bit about your experience in raising and deploying debt and equity capital.

Neil O’Donnell 03:26

Sure. So we’re we’re helping our clients raise employee debt and equity capital. We do so through a few different tools. So the first is the creation of funds or spvs that we’re putting capital within for the client fund. Documentation is always a very sensitive discipline. It’s regulated by the SEC as well. It should be. And so when we’re putting together these funds on behalf of our clients, we always have to do a very good job informing our clients of what they’re investing in, understanding the dynamics of that of that investment and how the fund will work, and letting investors know how the fund will wind down. What will happen if it’s a good investment? What will happen if it’s a bad one? And so that has to be clearly conveyed and relayed in that context. And so that’s a key part of of sourcing capital for investors. Whether it’s for a single deal like a one off SPV or for a discretionary fund that will be making multiple investments. And then in terms of deploying it, we have them deploy it in all manner of transactions. So it’s whether it’s debt or equity or even a cryptocurrency. We we’ve run the gamut there. And we know, you know, on behalf of our clients that things should be represented, that there should be representations and warranties so they know what they’re getting into. There’ll be covenants. So we know what the counterparty will perform during the course of the deal. And so for us, it’s really just making sure that there’s a meeting of the minds and then that there’s compliance with all applicable law and then speed to execution. We want to make sure that we get these done quickly. And I think that’s because Legal Scale only hires senior attorneys. We’re a much more nimble firm. And so everyone is has at least seven and often in most cases, ten years of experience. And we’re bringing that experience to bear on every transaction and by virtue of that, can get transactions done quickly, versus if we had to run through a hierarchy and use a third year attorney to start with and then run, run through a process for you.

Chad Franzen 05:09

How did Legal Scale come about?

Neil O’Donnell 05:11

So Legal Scale came about when myself and my partner, who were both JD MBAs, thought that there could be a way to work with an emerging client that we saw that was engaging in private transactions, running a very innovative strategy, but could benefit from our experience, both the being in the intersection of business and law, for the most part at Davis Polk. I was a pure attorney, and my clients knew exactly what they wanted to do. And some things, sometimes incredibly small parts of very large transactions would be, you know, the I would only see one tree in a very large force of a transaction. And so myself and my partner really wanted to run the entire transaction and see the full forest. And we we were lucky to do that. We’re also lucky to start seven years ago, when private transactions seemingly really, really took off. And then in the wake of Covid, an innovative firm like ours that was mostly remote and visited our clients in different jurisdictions and was looking at e-commerce and fintech and other business models that were expanding in the wake of Covid. We we continue to to really grow by virtue of, of our focus on those key disciplines.

Chad Franzen 06:16

Over the early days, like, like where did you guys start from?

Neil O’Donnell 06:20

So I previously, after leaving Davis Polk, I ran a private equity fund for two years. And that was really informative in order to understand exactly what my clients were doing. We talked before about raising deploying capital. I was, in that instance raising and deploying. And on behalf of limited partners, not clients. So it was a transformative experience and one that showed me exactly what my clients were looking to and how I could take costs out of the process and make it more innovative, firm by virtue of focus and understanding, like what my clients need said was. And so after we thankfully had had a very good exit at the private equity fund, I wanted to own 100% of something again. And I really liked certain aspects of corporate law. And so I decided to put up my shingle and start Legal Scale. And thankfully, it’s always grown from there. And the people that I had approached to raise money from for my fund, and both the debt and equity side became my initial subset of clients, which was enormously helpful.

Chad Franzen 07:15

So since since you’re kind of in charge, how do you how do you balance the detail oriented work with maybe the the broader strategic aspects of the practice?

Neil O’Donnell 07:24

So, I mean, I think myself and my partner have a very good balance on that. My partner, I’d love to have on on your show and on this podcast. And in due course, she’s in the midst of a closing this morning. I would say in the first instance, what we try to do is, is have our respective domains. So I’m definitely looking more at the external opportunities and external threats. And those include ways as well that we can more substantially and more robustly include AI in our practice, for example. And then myself and my partner have meetings about that. My partner is focused on some internal items as well. How they can grow the team. What is their hiring pipeline look like? What are our near term deals look like, and then how will people transition to the next deal? Making sure you aren’t too busy or too slow. And and so I think we have a good combination of of those items, both looking at internal and external from our team. And then we also have some because we’re only hiring senior attorneys, we look to the team for guidance. What do they think will be emerging categories and emerging business models that we should focus on? What are places that might be a bubble or might otherwise slow down? And there’s been a very. So I’m looking to get all the information from the smart people, those around me. And then I we make it sort of seems to approach.

Chad Franzen 08:30

What is the what is the as you look back at your time, maybe with Legal Scale or throughout your career, what is a challenge that you’ve faced, and how would you say that you have managed to overcome it?

Neil O’Donnell 08:40

It’s a really good question. I mean, I think, I think the challenges that we face are people looking for all of the other large law firms that were that were either across from or that might get engaged in a matter instead of us. They’re often very full service firms that can offer, you know, can can use many different types of counsel with different specialties in different jurisdictions. And so sometimes we’ll get the question around, how does your corporate boutique of of 20 people, how do they compete with, you know, Davis Polk where you’re at where they had 600 attorneys in New York, and I think 800 are probably even more at this point internationally. And I would say there’s a few items. So first and foremost, I do think that in the wake of AI, attorneys become more specialized over time. I think that like firms that have a leading practice will lead with that practice. Maybe that’s fun work or compliance work or fun related tax work at the table, and they’re a great example. And so they’ll continue to be very specialized and fun and have great experience there. The adjacent businesses will do really well, but it might be more likely with faster deals and other items getting done that that they might that some of some of the other work might go to Wilson Sonsini for, for workers or something else. And so I think the first instance that we actually match that by virtue of having strong relationships. So other firms have 800 people, I try to know 800 people myself. And, and then we, you know, for for IP work, for tax work, we, we use a variety of firms for, for tax, for example, we have a great relationship with Fenwick and West and we, you know, work with two partners there specifically. And then for a large fund related item that has an important tax piece that’s getting handled in exactly the same manner than they would at Davis Polk. And sometimes we get asked from clients, well, I have this deal and it has an international element. And you’re based in New York and we have offices in Israel. We have an office in New York, we have an office. We actually have two offices in California. But the key component from our perspective is not just where those those people are situated, where they’re based, but also, you know, can we find local counsel that we can maintain relationships with. So we work throughout Latin America. We work in Luxembourg, and often we have different types of council that might be appropriate for a fund matter versus another matter. And so we’re sourcing local counsel based upon their specialty too.

Chad Franzen 10:54

Do you have to take different types of approaches in that global kind of those different global locations?

Neil O’Donnell 11:01

Oh, certainly. I think it’s a really good question for yes without. So first off, I think we do a lot of debt work which is unique for which is unique for a law firm of our size. And so that debt work relies on one a keen understanding of how you maintain and perfect a security interest in collateral in that jurisdiction. And that’s entirely a local matter. There are elements of that that are guided by New York law. But then when it comes to forms of collateral and then exercising your rights against collateral, that is always going to be a local item that we’re going to be guided by local counsel on and look to best practices. So we have our playbook. And that playbook will adapt for sort of like the garden that we’re we’re growing in maybe need it. So I was a bit more acidic. Maybe. Maybe a bit more basic. And so what we’re adapting our approach based upon the regulatory framework, the just day to day practices and business practices of a jurisdiction. And then we’re deciding upon our approach, which is always in keeping with this broader, this broader approach, this broader subset of what we’re looking to do for each challenge.

Chad Franzen 12:03

Can you share a memorable experience or case from your legal career that had a significant impact on you?

Neil O’Donnell 12:10

Of course. Well, first and foremost, my my my father’s case is and being in a courtroom at five and six years old were enormously impactful. My first memory is actually seeing my dad deliver a closing in a in a car accident case, which was very interesting. And so those were enormously formative in terms of my own career for corporate work. I would also say that just focusing on investing and understanding of business, which I obtained from Johnson, was, was very helpful. And then all of those items came to bear on the first sets of deals that we worked on at Davis Polk. I had, you know, the opportunity and the fortune to work on bankruptcies and including, like the toys R us bankruptcy, for example. And that was really impactful. We don’t practice bankruptcy now. And there are just are items of our deals that might involve like a distressed company or anything else. But when you understand but bankruptcy is a unique practice because it exists at the intersection of business and law. And so to run through those restructurings while I was at Davis Polk was really impactful because it showed me if the business isn’t working, then it’s very tough to execute on the law. And conversely, you know, if you’re winning in terms of like a bankruptcy, it looks like your reorganization is going to go well. How much more that can inform your business and business approach? So to see how those were so joined at the hip as a young attorney was very impactful.

Chad Franzen 13:30

Yeah, I would imagine. What are some qualities that you believe are essential for success in the legal profession, especially in areas like private equity?

Neil O’Donnell 13:37

Well, it’s a good question. I mean, I would say first and foremost, perseverance you absolutely. You’re going to face challenging deals. The counterparties can be challenging. And everybody’s all of my clients are incredibly busy people. You know, they’re sending the emails nights, weekends. Everybody’s working all the time. And so you want to make sure that you can be available. You want to make sure that you can be persistent. And when there’s a bad conference call, something goes wrong. It doesn’t go your client’s way. You actually can manage your client’s expectations. And still, so long as it’s still possible and within the client’s stated goals, achieve that outcome, you know, keep driving towards closing. And so I think persistence number one is incredibly important. Second, in the corporate side, I would and this might surprise some people to have an idea of lawyers maybe garnered from suits or some other TV shows. I think being collaborative is just incredibly important. We’re all trying to get a deal done for clients. Our clients, in virtually all cases, are, have consented to and are trying to enter into a transaction that will be beneficial to both of them. And so, you know, for us to keep pushing towards a deal, and then to remember that the attorney on the other side has a different set of features behind that deal, but is still looking at the same deal as well, is incredibly important, and also too, is just if you’re going to be working on these deals 16 hours a day, it’s quickly purgatory. If you don’t have any relationship with the people on the other side. And so we don’t endeavor to create a caustic environment, you know, we don’t endeavor to say hell no to anything, you know? In fact, it’s just the opposite of, okay, that’s challenging for my client. But if I can get this, this and this, we might be able to make it work.

Chad Franzen 15:08

How important is corporate governance in the context of your practice?

Neil O’Donnell 15:12

Enormously important. And I think that’s something that people get right increasingly, increasingly right on the venture side and really have always gotten right on the on the PE side. And I would also note that that doesn’t seem like it would have inherent corporate governance, but the covenants that we’re entering into on for each credit deal are in order to achieve, you know, governance or in order to achieve a subset of making things investable for the client. So we always want our clients to be able to understand where they have control and where they don’t understand where they’re in compliance and when they’re not. And so for us, the key idea is that we go through with them our model. And I think this is a place where both myself and my partner are advantaged by our JD, MBA background and business backgrounds, because we can sit down with them and say, okay, here are the business items that you’re looking to achieve. And oh, okay, you want to receive some return of capital in three years, and then you want to exit the investment in five years. Well, if you don’t receive that dividend in three years, maybe we change the board in order to give you two additional board seats. Maybe we we have some capacity for you to look at exiting the company and being able to sell your stake if you don’t get a dividend. And so we go through with them the feature set that they’re looking for and the governance outcomes that would that would really, you know, push those items through. And that’s and that’s what we do time and time again. And so it’s I would say that we go in, we look at what our clients needs are and then how we avoid sort of the allegation of, of attorney point scoring is that we look at Exactly. We go in with the scalpel and we say, well, here’s what you need to in order to achieve this, but maybe these things are less necessary and it can be traded away.

Chad Franzen 16:44

You already mentioned kind of the the advent of AI. What role do you believe technology plays in shaping the future of legal services?

Neil O’Donnell 16:52

Yeah, I think. We’ll have specifically in your field. Oh, sorry. It was my. Can you repeat the end of the question?

Chad Franzen 16:57

Particularly in private equity and finance the future of technology, technology and how it impacts it.

Neil O’Donnell 17:03

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for repeating it. So I would say we’ll have an enormous impact. You know, both everyone on my team is is amazed by the capacity of AI at this point to do natural language processing. I think that, you know, in terms of legal research, maybe because LexisNexis, Westlaw are sort of domains unto themselves, it can be hard for it to pull certain documents or have an exact right read of, especially like a lengthy legal document at this point. And so but just like other technologies, I think that this will climb a skills ladder over time, starting at like the lowest level items and then going on to maybe simple agreements and then going on to full scale agreements. So what I’m able to get out of I 80% of the time at this point is a very good cogent answer to a to a legal question. So I do a lot of equity finance, and I think that that’s probably one of the places that because there are a lot of resources online and the documents themselves are publicly available, for the most part, I is going to be very good answers. Conversely, for for debt work, because that’s a little bit more opaque. There’s less free resources online. There are often incorrect items behind a ChatGPT search for for key covenants or sort of how things work. So right now we’re seeing like this patchwork that’s getting much more robust over time. And we saw it from ChatGPT three to ChatGPT four. Sometimes Gemini for Google has better answers than than either of those other resources. But so we’re seeing this this very smart sometimes giving better answers than like a first year or second year legal associate turn on and really do a great job. And so I would say, you know, first is going to be able to answer your legal questions. Then I think that we’re what we’re seeing just the start of is for certain provisions, if I ask it to turn a change into a provision of a document, it’s it’s able to do so. Maybe that’s slightly it’s still more likely than not maybe 50, 60% of the time where I don’t see it happening yet. And I’m sure that it will by ChatGPT five or 6 or 7. I have an 18 month year old son, so my son will see this unequivocally and hopefully his dad is old and if he doesn’t already. But what will happen last is being able to turn to turn the simple legal document, the full scale document, and then last the the like the 200 page credit agreement. And so it will just take time to climb up that ladder.

Chad Franzen 19:23

Yeah. How long have you been leveraging AI?

Neil O’Donnell 19:26

I’ve been using it within my own as an aspect of legal research since ChatGPT three came out. So I think I first went on ChatGPT November of 2022 and immediately wanted to see how how smart it was, I answered, I think I asked it three questions and it was mostly right on two questions. So I said, you know, I said to my partner that I thought that we had a new, you know, early stage associate at this point in time. And it’s been great for my team. I mean, there are times at which having a first year associate take the first crack at it is is really helpful, especially when that’s instantaneous. It’s hard to beat. So that’s, you know, with a firm for for which we have only senior attorneys, it’s an amazing resource for us. And it’s one that we’ve encouraged early adoption, adoption of all of my team uses ChatGPT. We currently don’t put in any client specific information. We’re using it for, for reviewing other items. Or we’ll take a publicly available provision like something from Edgar, and we might make changes to it through ChatGPT. But so that’s really where it lives for us right now. And then we are looking at the inclusion of a full scale, end to end AI tool. So far, we want to find one that can just make sure that it can turn our documents, and we want a slightly higher hit rate than we’re seeing in the market, but there will be adoption of that.

Chad Franzen 20:42

Did it take you a while to trust it, or was your first attempt pretty good? And you just kind of figured out ways to make sure it gave you, you know, the as accurate an answer as you’re looking for.

Neil O’Donnell 20:53

It’s so I it takes me maybe just being a pessimist and and maybe a good a good debt attorney. I would say that it takes me a while to trust anything, even my own legal understanding. And we tend to be in markets with fairness to AI where things have changed. You know, in the last three months or, you know, in very recently where there’s been case law on syndicated loans, we do some heavily syndicated loan transactions. So that’s been relevant. There’s been case law, especially in the fund context. And new laws that that apply to funds have been promulgated, some of which have been passed. So it’s it’s a situation where we just we want to make sure that the. half you know, half. Life is relatively short. I think it’s a terrific tool. But nothing’s dispositive in this case, at least so far. And and frankly, like I do think that the, the combination of AI plus senior attorney will be a pretty lasting one. And so and so I think that we want to make sure that we’re intertwining and thoughtfully intertwining both both AI and I should say like AI, we use AI processes. We actually use processes that are slightly different and involve machine learning as well. I would point to different tools, like in the debt covenant context, it’s actually even more important. You could see when covenants are interrelated and used together versus not so. Machine learning is also everybody says AI, but I wouldn’t I wouldn’t want to say that to the exclusion of ML and all of those being paired with a smart attorney. Brain is our model. Go for it.

Chad Franzen 22:15

I have one more question for you, but first tell me how people can find out more about Legal Scale.

Neil O’Donnell 22:19

Perfect. Well, they can visit our website which is just legal. Scale legalscale.com And I would. In addition to that, my partner and I are both on LinkedIn. We. And so that’s probably in addition to just sending me a direct email, calling us at the number that’s on our website, or sending or connecting through LinkedIn, those are the three best ways to reach me.

Chad Franzen 22:43

Okay, great. Hey, last question for you. What advice would you give to somebody who an aspiring attorney looking to enter the field of private private equity or finance law that they couldn’t have learned and learned that maybe they could only learn having, you know, walked in your shoes?

Neil O’Donnell 22:59

Yeah, I think it’s a really good question. I mean, I think first and foremost, and sometimes because law schools can can be competitive and you’re trying to get the best grade in the class. One is don’t don’t compete to the to with any sacrifice to your relationships. The single best thing I have from Cornell, both on the MBA side and the JD side, was the relationships that came out of law school and business school. And so I would say maintaining those relationships is is the single most important thing ten years into my career. Nobody asks me what what grade I got in Cipro. And everybody asked me, oh, do you know this person from your Cornell class? You know that person? Whether they were a year above me or you’re below me, I think Cornell did a very good job at fostering those relationships. And I think that, you know, when I look back at law school, hopefully, you know, 40 or 50 years from now when I’m still practicing alongside a big computer, I guess in the future the computer will just be asking me, like, who do you know in this space? You know, like the relationship aspect of it as we look ahead to a more tech. You know, AI oriented future, the human relationship component will never go away. And those soft skills will become especially especially important.

Chad Franzen 23:59

Did you go into law school with that attitude or did you? I’ve heard lost a lot of law schools, have kind of a like a dog eat dog culture. Yeah. Did you go into law school with that attitude or did you figure it out?

Neil O’Donnell 24:13

I think because my both my parents were attorneys and they met in law school, I certainly had had the idea of really having and maintaining good relationships. My parents went to the University of Pittsburgh, and every time they’re in Pittsburgh, they eat with three of their friends from law school that were in their small section that they lived with, that they’ve, you know, vacationed with. It’s it’s really been and some of those people that were actually even at my wedding just to kind of show what the quality of family, friends. And so I think I did go into it with, with more of a collaborative idea. And then I would say as well, Cornell was just a really friendly spot. It’s it’s a smaller law school, so everybody gets to know everyone. And it would I don’t know if it was. There was moments of competition, but it was certainly not dog eat dog, at least for me.

Chad Franzen 24:57

Sure, sure. Hey, Neil, it’s been great to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time and all your insights. It’s been great to hear about Legal Scale. Really appreciate it today.

Neil O’Donnell 25:04

Of course, it’s a terrific show. I’m so happy to be a part of it and look forward to coming back. Thank you. Talk soon.

Chad Franzen 25:09

Thank you. Have a great day. So long everybody.

Outro 25:12

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