Gladiator Law Marketing for Attorneys
Gladiator Law Marketing for Attorneys


Developing Immigration Strategies in Challenging Landscapes With Christina Coleman

November 2, 2022   |   Written by Gladiator Law Marketing
Christina Coleman Christina ColemanChristina Coleman is the Owner of Coleman Immigration LLC, a boutique law firm focused on immigration issues. She is experienced in developing and executing immigration strategies for a wide range of corporate clients in a variety of industries, including US companies seeking to hire foreign workers and multinational companies transferring foreign employees and executives to the US. She also represents foreign investors and serves as immigration counsel to a corporate services law firm with a particular emphasis on assisting European interests in the US. Additionally, Christina helps individuals achieve their immigration goals, including obtaining work visas, family-based visas, and citizenship. Previously, Christina practiced as a litigator at Sidley Austin, defending companies in complex federal and state litigation, including multi-district litigation. She was an Adjunct Faculty member for DePaul College of Law. She earned her bachelor of arts in French and English literature from Dalhousie University, a master of arts in English Literature from McGill University, and a master of philosophy in medieval studies from Yale University. Christina earned her JD at Loyola University of Chicago Law School, where she graduated magna cum laude.
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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Christina Coleman describes her journey from medieval studies to law
  • Overcoming fear and anxiety to create your own path
  • Why does Christina recommend an operating agreement?
  • Christina explains why moving forward is an accomplishment to celebrate every day
  • How to showcase your abilities to gain client trust
  • Christina describes the craziest thing she’s ever done — and how her confidence grew
  • Christina shares why she enjoys listening to audiobooks and podcasts
  • How conferences are a great place to connect with others in your industry

In this episode…

Do you want to take the leap and revolutionize your career? Developing strategies to deliver unparalleled client rapport can be difficult when you have little experience to back it up. So, how can you reach clients and establish a trusting relationship? According to Christina Coleman, the people you meet along the way can be instrumental in shaping your journey and helping you grow. She discovered her passion, and it directed her toward immigration law. As an immigrant herself, she uses her experience to cultivate relationships with her clients, but she wasn’t always so accomplished. Now, as an established leader in her industry, Christina is here to share her advice and inspire you to discover your worth. In this episode of 15 Minutes, Michael Renfro sits down with Christina Coleman, Owner and Attorney at Coleman Immigration LLC, to discuss mistakes, chances, and strategies that accelerate your professional growth. Christina talks about her unique entrance into the legal industry, managing unforeseen circumstances as a leader, and strategies to market your abilities.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, where we deliver tailor-made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential. To have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI, your firm needs to have a better website and better content. At Gladiator Law Marketing, we use artificial intelligence, machine learning, and decades of experience to outperform the competition. To learn more, go to or schedule a free marketing consultation. You can also send an email to

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:01   You’re listening to 15 Minutes, where we feature community leaders sharing what the rest of us should know but likely don’t. Michael Renfro  0:13   Hello everyone, Michael Renfro here I’m the host of 15 Minutes where we talk with top notch lawyers and law firms about what it takes to grow a successful practice. This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing where we deliver tailor made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize maximize your growth potential to have a successful marketing campaign. And truly make sure that you’re getting the best ROI possible your firm needs to simply put, have a better website and better content than the competitors at GLM, We are you, we use artificial intelligence as well as machine learning. Combine that with literally over a century now of expert excuse me experience to outperform that competition. And to give you an idea, just just our founder alone has a quarter century 25 years to learn more go to that spelled standard Gladiator Gladiator Law, law Marketing to schedule a free marketing consultation. Or you can also send an email directly to me. And that is Michael Michael at that following web address With that said, I’m going to jump right into it. Today’s guest is Christina Coleman. Christina Coleman, who is a immigration attorney in Michigan, I believe if I’m getting the state right, and one of the things that she’s doing, I’ll let you tell more about it here right off the bat kind of impromptu, but why don’t you tell him just give us an idea of what you told me in the email about the transformation that you’re making going from, from remote control to Coleman. Christina Coleman  1:56   All right. Well, thanks so much for having me, Michael, and no offense to Michigan, but I’m actually in the lovely city of Chicago. Michael Renfro  2:03   I’m sorry, I got it wrong. Christina Coleman  2:05   No worries. I love Michigan too big fan of the state. Michael Renfro  2:09   It’s going from Michigan. Nevermind, I just, Christina Coleman  2:12   that’s okay. If we were Michigan residents, we might actually be at Michigan, because of the in state tuition there. But he was very lucky and got a wonderful scholarship to Michigan State. So we are proud Spartans now. And yes, I just was telling, we were just talking about how we are unveiling our new name. Right after Labor Day, we will be So yeah, it’s exciting, exciting times, we’re celebrating our seventh year, and decided it was time for a little a little refresh. Michael Renfro  2:46   That was your answer to before I even got I was about to ask how old is the is the company Total? Seven years, just so you know, It’s my lucky number. So I love seven. It’s always been, I tend to be with George, if I ever had a little girl, I probably would have named her seven for all kinds of reasons now. So how do you how did you get started? Christina? What? What got you and when I say how you got started, I’m really referring more to like in law in general, like what got you going from being a pedestrian and a civilian, to somebody who knows the rules of the country? Christina Coleman  3:19   Wow, I love that analogy. Well, I’ll give you the short version ish. I grew up in, in Toronto, Canada, which is part of my maybe affinity for Michigan, I feel like there’s a lot of a lot of confluence there. But, and I went to I went to undergrad in in Canada and did a master’s degree in Montreal and then was lucky to get a scholarship to come down and go to Yale to do more graduate work. And that was sort of the beginning of my immigration journey. But I did not plan on becoming a lawyer. I was going to be a professor of medieval studies. And I came out to Chicago for a one year opportunity. kind of fell in love with the city decided I wanted to stay was taking a pause from my dissertation, I’d done everything else and just picked up a six month writing gig for an immigration attorney thinking oh, you know, I just I just need to take a break. And I found it fascinating and it was not what I had imagined that all got to work with a lot of fascinating researchers in all areas writing persuasive documentation for them. Six months turned into five years. And I thought you know what quick to write. Yeah, exactly. I was crazy. And I thought you know what, if I’m going to do this, I need to be a lawyer like you said I can’t I have to I love school. So I went back to to school got my law degree again life degree. No problem. I went to Loyola University here in Chicago. Oh, So, one of the reasons I picked it actually was because they had a wonderful night program that a lot of the schools didn’t have at that time. And I had just had a baby. And I wanted to, I was going to work, go to school at night and do the baby that turned out to be a little. So I’m assuming Michael Renfro  5:15   this is a baby, baby boy, that’s off to Michigan State. Right? So we’re talking about like, 19-20. Somewhere in that years ago, exactly. Christina Coleman  5:23   19 years ago, literally, right now, I was saying to myself, can I really go to law school with this two month old baby who doesn’t sleep through the night? I never do. And I thought maybe I should defer. Maybe I’ll defer. And literally, he’s like, I sent him a message or something. He started sleeping through the night. And I thought, Okay, we’re gonna try it. And we did it. i What do you have to lose? Right? And it was, it was great. And all of my law school friends. i We of course, they all knew Sebastian, that’s his name special from when he was. Michael Renfro  5:59   I love that name. I had just so you know, I had a group of friends that were three, one of the most incredible names. I’ve tried to name my boys very, very different because of it. But there was three brothers that I knew and it was Sebastian. Oh, my God, Inman and Rory. Oh, wow. I love I was like, these are just really, they are very not normal. Like Sebastian is probably the one that if anything you can say is kind of similar to Christian, but I think I’ve only known like one Sebastian and one of my favorite characters of all time. Is the Sebastian character funny enough in Oh, my God, just Blade Runner. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie. But yeah, the Sebastian and that is one of the main characters. And I remember the first time I heard that name. I was like, of that name. That’s so different. So I kudos to the name. I love it. Christina Coleman  6:49   I actually had didn’t know anybody named Sebastian either until I went to France. And it’s a much more common name. Michael Renfro  6:56   I would imagine. It’s a European. Right. Yeah. Specific to France. That area. Is that is that the area that it comes from? Christina Coleman  7:03   There’s all kinds of St. Sebastian’s all over Europe and also, in South and Central America. He was an important Christian martyr. I actually named him after I met a wonderful Sebastian in France, who was fantastic. It’s also a very popular name in the UK. So yes, it’s kind of all over the place. Michael Renfro  7:23   No, that’s cool. So which I didn’t quite understand who did you name him after which which Sebastian was it? Christina Coleman  7:29   Well, it was kind of uh, oh, I Michael Renfro  7:32   get it now compiled type of things now Christina Coleman  7:35   very aware of the of the of the saint but also met some wonderful person named Sebastian and I thought I really, really liked this name. And so I pointed him to all my law school friends. And I’m like, Look, it’s the physical embodiment of our legal career. Like we literally started law school right at the beach. And now he’s, he’s this giant individual. He’s six feet tall. I don’t know where he really was Michael Renfro  8:01   about to ask you if he’s, I would have met. I imagine mom is now looking up at him. Do you remember I went from like this to okay, I love you, son. But my mom was I mean, I’m I’m six one ended up being six one when it all was said and done. And my mom I think is maybe five, nine, you know, maybe Mishima Don’t be five, seven, honestly. And so you know, it was it didn’t take long for not only myself, but my my two young or my two oldest who are 22. Even the short one is looking slightly down. Because he’s like five dead, right? Christina Coleman  8:36   It’s interesting. When we do all this stuff on Zoom, you know, we have no idea how tall anybody is. Michael Renfro  8:45   I’m actually a short guy. I was standing on a stool and I didn’t I didn’t want you to know. Christina Coleman  8:53   So yeah, so law school was an amazing, an amazing time. Michael Renfro  9:00   How long did it take you? I know it was going back. So was it like three, four years total? Or how long did law school takes specifically just that part of it? Christina Coleman  9:08   So I did it in four. You can do it in three, or if you go full time, or some of my Michael Renfro  9:14   job was stopped you from doing quite frankly, I mean, you have a kid you have a job. It would be a miracle to do it in three years. Christina Coleman  9:23   Yeah. And I actually decided not to keep working because I wanted to spend time with my son. And I will tell you what a gift. I was very fortunate to have that I got to be with him until he was four and went off to school and I started at a large law firm. And I was very glad that I had taken that time because the next several years I was working pretty much round non stop. Yeah, it was pretty intense. And yeah, so I was At Sidley Austin, for a while not doing immigration, actually, I did a lot of I did a bunch of pro bono immigration work while I was there, but I was actually a litigator while I was there. And then after a while, it’s like, okay, this is not why you went to law school, your passion, learned how to be a great lawyer met some wonderful people I’m still friends with, but it just, you know, eventually it was like, direction, time to go time to go off and do what you set out to do. And we were talking before we got rolling about life’s twists and turns. So that was definitely a big moment when I was like, okay, to go back to why why went to law school in the first place. Michael Renfro  10:39   Since we’re, since we’re on it, would you say that that particular moment was the biggest turning point? Or is there one that you would consider bigger in the sense of getting you to where you are now? Christina Coleman  10:51   I think getting me to where I am now. Probably the most definitive moment was shortly after I opened RC, which did for Richard Stallman with a friend of mine from law school, who had been practicing immigration the whole time, he was ready to leave his big law firm, and said, Well, why don’t you come with me? Let’s open something together. And we did. And then he very unexpectedly and tragically passed away, about three or four months after we opened, and it was Michael Renfro  11:32   three months. Like, I mean, this is the company this is the firm that you’re running. Now we’re talking about Correct? Correct. And wow, that’s yeah, that’s pretty very, that’s like, that’s so many feelings wrapped into one when it’s a partner, a friend, a new business. I mean, it’d be different if the business was even three years old. Right? Because you’d be past that honeymoon and all that. But wow, that’s kudos. Not kudos for him dying, obviously, kudos to the fact that you obviously found a way to weather that storm. And that’s a hell of a storm. That’s a perfect storm, in my opinion, like, the one event put a perfect storm of situations onto you that, you know, obviously, you had to handle or drought. And you’re here. Yeah, thank you. That’s awesome. So that’s the biggest turning point. What did you learn from that? Just that big of that, like, what was the one thing you think you took most from that? Christina Coleman  12:28   Well, it was a very interesting moment. It was definitely a case of building the plane and flying it at the same time. I know that kind of be tired cliche sometimes. But I really felt that no, I I get it. You know, just having the I had I had some support. And it was interesting. I we had just hired literally, I think three weeks, a junior attorney and associate attorney, who was a millennial. And I, I liked her very much. And I said, what, what? What do you think? What should we do? And I always say, when people say, you know, millennials, just so you know, the great thing about millennials is they always think everything will work out. The bad thing about millennials is they always think everything. In this instance, it was helpful to me because she said we can do it, you can do it. You we can do this. And we did. And she you know, she was amazing. She stayed with me for two years. And then she moved on went out to Colorado and just I won’t say, Oh, all right, there you go. They just had a baby and bought a nice house and outside of Denver. And she’s you know, she’s she’s doing her thing. And but she was instrumental. And we I think just learning to kind of accept help and move past the fear. I had a lot of anxiety. I’m a single mom, I had a young ish son 12 At the time, Michael Renfro  14:17   and you were single, because from doing the math, clearly that was the relationship had already been over for a while, and you had moved on. So being a single mother, when you put that into the mix of all of it that just add there’s no other adult to help bear the load of child raising. Christina Coleman  14:37   Yeah, and going from a big firm, to Hillary to have starting your business without Michael Renfro  14:44   you gotta love Jerry Maguire. I mean, I literally want to say this like for the last I mean, you have one of those, you know, true Jerry Maguire type moments where it’s like, you know, first you and your friend Yeah, he died but then you looked at her like, are we gonna do this? Yeah, let’s do it. You know? Okay. As you know, I mean, sometimes I truly believe sometimes we have to, well, it’s not even me, obviously, that believes this. This is a cliche, right? The only way I can’t remember the entire cliche, but essentially, you’re never going to find great success, if you’re not willing to put it all on the line and throw caution to the wind. That is the reality that the ones that have the most success in this life, we’re willing to put everything on the line, and not worry about the consequences. Christina Coleman  15:30   I mean, I worried about it. I was Michael Renfro  15:34   worried enough, right? I mean, what I mean by that is, yeah, we worry about it. I’m not saying that you don’t have that. I mean, I guarantee you, all these folks worry about it. But we have enough entrepreneurism, because I say is I’ve done the same thing myself, to where you go, you know, what, I know, I have a family, I know, I have all these responsibilities, and everybody’s gonna think I’m crazy. But I also have a feeling and a belief that what I’m doing is the right thing. And I’m just going to do it, you know, and if it turns out wrong, I believe everything happens for a reason. Anyway, if it turns out that it doesn’t work out, it’s still supposed to happen, because you learn something from that, and you take it to the next to the next project, or the next business, the next firm that you may work for if you you know, I mean, I myself have had my own business, sold it, had my own business fail, had to tuck my tail and go work for someone else for a while. I’ve been through every you know, scenario, and it’s all a learning experience. And it all makes you who you are. So kudos Oh, for a truly. I always like hearing people that, that take the chance, particularly when I bet everything around you and everybody was like, probably not the best idea. You need to do this, this and this, you have a son, you have a blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, Yeah, but I’m gonna go for it. So what challenge did you overcome that gave you actually the most headway on the other side? Kind of like we talked about before the show? Christina Coleman  16:56   I would say, basically, that moment of working through the anxiety working through the fear of failure, and Michael Renfro  17:06   With your partner dying, are you talking about that moment? Yeah, to literally take the reins, and Yep. Christina Coleman  17:13   Just letting myself you know, move, move through that moment and get past and, like I said, except, except the help from people, I still, I won’t, I won’t pretend I didn’t make any fear based decisions that looking back now I can see the mistakes I made. On occasion, while I definitely did made the beginner mistake of taking every client, even clients that you know, aren’t a good fit for you. Or you can tell right away, there’s, they’re not going to be a great client. You take them anyway, because you’re afraid. I want to I always tell people, like if you I know we all do it, but try not to do it know your worth. It’s took me a while to know my own worth Michael Renfro  17:57   believe in your worth believing it to like don’t just know it, but then hold true, you know, like, stand your ground, if you will. Christina Coleman  18:05   Yeah, so those would be a couple of the big ones. I will say as a little aside or not aside. I don’t know if we’re mainly talking to lawyers. But if you are thinking of forming any kind of partnership, or going to have any other people working with you as lawyers, make sure you have an operating agreement as early on the very first day and I example, I’m the cautionary tale. And I had one I had an operating agreement, and thank God I did because I wouldn’t have Michael Renfro  18:39   you would have been F so bad. Yeah. And I tried. You know, I used to do insurance. I did insurance for many years. And I would try to explain to people they’re like, oh, Insurance insurance salesmen have almost as bad a rap as like car salesmen. Right? Which is ridiculous. Because you have to employers. Yeah, we’re all right there. We all here’s the funny thing we all have to drive on, like almost all of us, right? And anybody that thinks they doesn’t need insurance has never understood the concept of what it is, and when the appropriate times to use it, or the fact that it’s a financial building tool, by the way, okay. That’s the biggest one that I used to teach people. But more importantly, on this particular subject, I would tell people look, if you’re starting a business, I don’t care if the dudes 20 birth the dudes 90, you don’t know what’s going to happen the moment you shake his hand and say, Yes, you have. You have literally liability time between you say yes, and even getting the contract because you just don’t know what’s going to happen. But the shorter amount of time that there is between the handshake, the signing, and the and the the the oh my goodness, you just said it. The Please say the name of it. Again, my brain is operating agreement. Yes, the operating agreement. You know, the moment that you have that in place, then then you’re covered. But you really you know, you’re taking a chance. The moment that you sign an agreement and don’t have that, right like that’s already a chance and people just don’t want it saying how? I mean, you kind of got lucky in the sense of it was only three months, right? Three months and a half, three and a half. I mean, and when I say lucky, you clearly had already done that, like you said, but I bet had it been three days in it might not have been done. Christina Coleman  20:17   Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely I spoke with people. And they, they did recommend it. And I had to push to get it done, because my partner and one of the great things about him was that he was a risk taker. And I still, I still sometimes say, Well, what would he do in this situation? But I sit down, you know, I think I think we really need to do this. And without going into the details, I’m so glad I did, because there was actually a person who had been sort of related to him and said, Well, now you have to close the firm. And I said, No, no, I won’t. Here’s the operating agreement. Here’s how it’s gonna happen. Michael Renfro  20:54   Nice. I love that, like, that’s that moment that we all love and feels like, no, that’s not gonna happen. Sorry. It’s right here. Maybe you want to read the signature? Yeah, I love that. So let’s talk about that for a minute. So to kind of a dual part question number one, what’s your what’s your proudest moment, I’m going to ask you this other one, just because I, you know, I want to try to shorten up time for both of us, but what’s your proudest moment, and then what’s the best advice from a mentor, or if you have multiples that you want to set and say, that’s more than that’s more than welcome, but proudest moment, and then best advice from a mentor. Christina Coleman  21:32   So proudest professional moment, I would say, is probably just today, like every, every day, we get a little, a little further, a little stronger, I do remember, Michael Renfro  21:44   because you’re on my show, Christina Coleman  21:46   that’s this is the highlight of my professional career, Michael, you, you’ve your witness, Michael Renfro  21:52   thank you for having us. I do every day every day is that is the is the better, like, every day, it gets better. And it continues, I feel the same way. Because I’m living the dream continue. Christina Coleman  22:06   I was just gonna say I remember passing those milestones, like, one year, and like, you know, most 90% of businesses fail within their first year, then, you know, three years, you know, well, you’ve got about 50, and then a five. So, you know, I, I like to just always feel that I’m moving forward. And, you know, getting to mentor, I do have a junior, junior associate attorney, a newer attorney on staff with me, so getting to work with her and just feeling like we are moving in a great direction we have, most of our clients are fantastic. And like I said, being able to get to that point where you know, you know, there’s people who maybe need a different kind of lawyer or maybe are in a different area than what you choose Michael Renfro  22:50   what you know, is best for the firm and best for the client, you don’t get it like that’s, it takes. It’s not easy to get to that point, like you said, when you’re trying to overcome all the fear. And will I make it my first year will I make it three years, like you said, you know, it’s so it takes a lot, I really do understand that we we are similar in that approach that we don’t, because well, here’s the thing, I’ll just say this, I want to expand on it. Because I don’t know if you were gonna say anything about this fact of it. But a lot of people think it’s about the money ultimately ends up coming down to if you make that bad decision out of fear, you end up costing your business more time and more money than had you just let them go and talk to the next person, which most likely would have been a better fit in some way, shape or form. So you end up hurting, not just pausing, but it’s that two steps back to go three steps forward now, because you have to go you got to go back and then you got to learn. So it’s gonna be a forward movement. But it’s a forward movement with with backlash, you know? Christina Coleman  23:52   Yeah, for sure. I think. So that’s, that’s probably my hugest thing that I’ve learned or you just said to me, that’s where Michael Renfro  24:02   we can talk however you want. I’m fine. Lawyers have legalese. So y’all could just make up words sometimes. We don’t even know if you did so don’t. Christina Coleman  24:14   And then you had asked about about mentors. Michael Renfro  24:16   I know you’re one now I know. That’s kind of cool for you. You were just talking about you’re kind of now. One, you know, you’re a mentor to a few different people throughout time, but who’s who’s the one that gave you the best piece of advice? Christina Coleman  24:28   So I think the best piece of advice probably came from my wonderful friend and law school colleague and fellow immigration attorney who’s in a different area of immigration law than I am and I’ll give her a little shout out here. Her name is Kathleen Eva Nucci. She Kathleen, she goes by Katie but Vannucci And she’s, she’s at auger in law and she’s wonderful for all the things I don’t do asylum deportation complex family matters with criminal elements. Immigration Michael Renfro  25:01   is a big one I would have never that’s like three practice areas. I never even thought about that from a marketing standpoint. Like, I don’t think about someone that has a criminal situation with a group of people. That’s I mean, like, that’s just I never would have thought of it. That’s funny. Criminal family and, and immigration all thrown into one. Christina Coleman  25:21   Yeah, well, so it’s all has the impact immigration. So she just says immigration just like me. So Michael Renfro  25:27   it impacts the immigration that she has to understand the ins and outs of family as well as criminal. Yeah, get through. That’s, that’s just I know, it sounds dumb. I’ve been doing this since 2007. As far as specific to attorneys. And I’m just never, like, you still hear new things where you’re like, Wow, you actually, you know, you either have to know that or I imagine maybe get sub counsel or additional counsel to help you in those matters. That gives you the expertise that you need, but still never thought of it. Christina Coleman  25:57   Yeah, it’s I mean, it’s people are like, you just do immigration. I’m like, I don’t even do all immigration, immigration is intense, and complex and changing when I started doing this, and I won’t say what year but a long time ago, 20 years ago, and I started, you know, we had some we had a sheet up on the wall with like, where you file things and and now it’s like, every, every time I file anything, I have to double check. They’re constantly changing. They’re constantly changing, like policies, the last administration was crazy for this. So there’s a lot. Michael Renfro  26:28   I mean, it really, it’s worth it. Six months, I just said I think every six months, you’ve got new things on the table that reassess like, almost in inevitably, at least one thing is going to change somehow your routine, and at least one case scenario. And you’re like, wow, and come on, just got that one down. Christina Coleman  26:52   So she was so so Katie was there. She was also a friend of my partners. And she said, you know, Christina, you, you’ve got this and we’re all here for you. We will help you. You know, she’s football analogy. I don’t know much about football, but something about I was carrying the ball. But there were people around me. I don’t know, something, something sports related. But she was very encouraging. And I will say the immigration community in Chicago anyway, a very collaborative, very supportive. I definitely, you can reach out to people, and they’ll help they’ll help you. They’ll help you I was, you know, attorneys. Yeah. At least at least the ones I know. I mean, I’m sure there. Yeah. So that’s in the Michael Renfro  27:37   water. But it sounds like you guys have a lot more dolphins than sharks there. Let’s just put it that way. Christina Coleman  27:41   Yeah, it’s certainly attracts a certain type of person, I would say and, and then just overall, being a lawyer, I would say my mentor at Sidley Austin, wonderful person I’m still good friends with and she just taught me that you, you know, you don’t need to be confrontational or belligerent to be an effective lawyer. She’s really fantastic at what she does, she actually runs the Chicago office of Tucker and LLS now, and she’s wonderful. She’s so good at what she does. And I just, I just, I loved watching her lead a team by just the way she she handled other attorneys, and you learn sometimes negative examples. And you’re like, Okay, I’m just not going to do whatever they do. doing that. And there Yeah, obviously, those are everywhere. But you know, those, those were definitely great, great mentors for me. And then I just have to give a shout out to my parents, of course, because they just always believe believed in me. And they’re just like, whatever you want to do, Christine, you can put your mind to it. So those were that was important. Support at that time, and just, you know, just make your own family make your own support network. Michael Renfro  28:55   That’s really your you create your your surroundings, you know, and it’s funny, because I had my time in AA and NA and CA and one of the things that happens when you go through those, and this was back in my teens, we were not I wasn’t even 21. I went through all that I was 16. And one of the things though, that that is the predominant driving force that I’ve taken with me since then, is that when you want to change something, you’ve got to change your playground and your playmates. And if you want to be successful, if you want to be positive, if you want those things, then you put yourself around other positive, optimistic, successful people. And really, Osmosis is a real thing between humans in the sense that if you continue to put yourself around that and observe it, and obviously you there has to be a part of you that tries to practice it, right. You can’t just observe it, but it will become second nature before you know it. It will not be something you’re trying to practice. It’ll be something you start to preach and are practicing your actions. Prove it to people Christina Coleman  29:59   yeah no, I think that’s I mean, that’s very true. And having just wonderful lawyers. I mean, and I know sometimes lawyers take some, some flack for Michael Renfro  30:10   salespeople. But we’re very much the same lawyers and salespeople I, I always say this, it doesn’t even matter if you’re not a litigator, because everybody thinks is always just immediately the fact that litigators and salesmen are obviously very similar, you cannot argue it, you’re trying to sell and persuade a group of people to see it your way, period. That’s what a salesman is. But there’s more to it than that, like, just for instance, your immigration, anything that any salesman or I should say anything that any good salesman, sales person, let me be politically correct here. So I’m making it truly broadband. I’m just, I’m 50. So the man still stays in there. But any salesperson that truly wants to be successful, has to learn their, their service, their product, whatever it is, they’re selling the same way that you folks have to learn every particular case, the only difference is, we don’t have to go to school for seven years to learn how to do that. And I do mean that I’m not putting it down, you have legal books. And so part of the job for an attorney is that when they get a case, they have to go back and reference these books, I think a lot of what you go to school for is learning how to do that properly, to get the case knowledge that you need to fight the case that you’re in, until you have your own base of case knowledge that you can rely on. Right. So a lot of what you learned, I think in that as being alert lawyer is that but the other part, though, I mean it very seriously, the only way you can truly persuade and convince another party or a group of people of anything, or teach them about it, which is more what you do, because you really teach these folks and then run them through the process. I’m guessing that’s most of what you do. And not a lot of in court work. Is that right? Christina Coleman  31:56   I actually do know, in court work. And one of the reasons I focus on my areas that I had no desire to go back to Michael Renfro  32:07   what it is a lot of teaching for you, right? Like you’re teaching these folks almost from day one, many times almost everything that the process takes for them in their particular case. Christina Coleman  32:17   Sure, yeah. You’re you’re explaining to clients, and then we do everything, what we say on the papers, like everything is in writing, and you’re persuading an officer, you know, why this person has extraordinary ability, or why they are an amazing manager and should be able to get their green card? Michael Renfro  32:35   Well, and here’s the one say, one thing I’ll always fall back onto and similarities. You have to sell those folks, when they first reach out to your firm, they have to be sold by you that you are the one it doesn’t matter whether it was you individually. But you know, whether it was your marketing Something had to get them to call you or pick up the phone referral, right, whatever it is. And then you really do have to close the deal. I say that because I do work with attorneys. And they literally call it that most attorneys I talked to are like to close this many deals. They don’t even call it cases when they’re talking to me on the other end, if that makes sense when it’s when it’s marketing conversation, and not the legal conversation. So I just find it, I’ve always found it very similar. I think that’s why I took to it so much. Because I feel like I’m dealing with most of the time, my own breed of person, if you will, they get my understanding. They understand the ins and outs of it right. Like you probably need to talk to I’m guessing just my guess we’re probably somewhere between three to five. And we’re to get a case that you feel is good and a case that they say yes as well. Not only do you like but they like you, that probably takes maybe three to five calls on average. I’m guessing. Christina Coleman  33:47   Yeah, sure. I mean, I think one of the things about for a lot of lawyers, and this may be changing but for me, the business of law was not, I wasn’t it’s hard for me to it took me a long time to be able to see this as a business and I didn’t want to worry about money and I didn’t want to think of it and like you said as as you know, closing that always be closing and all that kind of stuff. I’m like, I just want to help people and if people want you know, and generally that’s kind of still how I run it a little bit. But you do obviously have to think about, about what works and in a lot of ways I am my products. I’m more I’m the brand and I spend a lot of my time talking on the phone to my clients, because they just, you know, they just want to talk to you about I say, I put my therapist hat on. And man during the pandemic. I will say I was more than 50% therapists like okay, we’re gonna get there everybody’s in the same boat. All the embassies are closed. I know this is frustrating. Try not to worry. So yeah, it’s it’s an interesting blend. I have sort of, like you said, entrepreneurial and thinking about as a business. But it’s such a human component for me anyway, like every person, a lot of this is their dream, right? This is not the big. Yeah, right, they have somewhere they want to go. And I can get them there. And so, and it’s interesting, like the different ways people are and business versus family cases. And anyway, it’s a Yeah, it’s a, it’s an interesting, interesting sort of way to think about how you’re thinking about yourself in terms of your business and the things you have to do and the things you want to do. Michael Renfro  35:41   Well, I truly hope that that nothing I said was, was taken the wrong way. Because I don’t mean to make a comparison that may hurt someone’s feelings or feel like I was doubting him, I really see it that way. Because, like, for instance, my evolution in sales was in the beginning, obviously, only, I mean, when I started as early as 14, and that was all about money. It was purely about money. And it only got more about money, until I held my first child, you know, so until I was turned 28. And my priorities were flipped upside down. And I had a new understanding of what life meant. The sales was always about money, money, money, like you said, you know, always be closing. And I told you, it’s an evolution and you know, now we, I turn away more folks now, because I really look for the right fit, I look for someone I can truly help and is gonna be kind to my project managers in the company, we only have oh, my gosh, 52-53 clients, I have one guy that we has made my project manager cry, and that just like, there’s no reason in business to make any buddy brought, in my opinion, there’s no crying in marketing. Right? There’s no I have a Tom Hanks moment the other day, but I want from that movie, buddy. But yeah, I mean, like, truly what you learn, here’s my philosophy on it. I’ll give you an example. There’s persuasion. And there’s manipulation. Right, these two these two words are nearly identical in definition. Okay, but one is what I call me manipulation. Because it’s all about you and what you’re trying to get and gain. And then there’s people suasion, where you’re trying to help the other person, because what you’re doing and what they what you offer, whether it’s a sale, or a friendship, or a lending hand, whatever you offer will help them in some way, and you’re trying to show them. So I went from, you know, this needle, I mean, there’s some people that are right in between, right, you know, what some of a lot of what they do is, is for themselves, and they, they justify it by doing it for other people, but you can’t take away they’re doing it for other people. But the reason? And I always tell people I’m like, you know, you really got to look at the reason what are you doing this for? That’ll tell you whether you’re doing it, you know, for the people, or whether you’re doing it for yourself, that’s it’s just that so what’s the end goal? A lot of people don’t like to look at their end goals either. Because they always say money. Have you ever noticed that it’s always money, but then if you ask them, like three questions beyond that, my mother in law is moving in, and there’s no way I want to see her anymore. And I need 10 Extra $1,000 to build a room on to this house. So I could not see that woman. Christina Coleman  38:27   speaking from the heart there. Michael Renfro  38:29   No, I’m I’m listening. That’s my I got my mom. My mother in law is a horrible person. Not not the real one. Actually, I’ll just say that my wife is adopted. Her adopted mother is literally Mommy dearest, I’m not even exaggerating down to wire hangers. No, truly. Her real mother she just met. Well, honestly, your real mother’s past or real father’s past. She just found her real family. She’s now talking to her blood brother in Hungary. She’s Hungarian, predominantly European, but Asian, African and many others gypsies. So like many others, right? But she’s now found a real family. So actually, on a side note, that’s kind of cool. It’s not it really is. i It is a example that I take from a phone call that I did in 2005. Now 405 2005 February, I even remember the month because I started working for a company that sold it training software. Have you ever heard of like these folks to get certified with Microsoft and comp, Tia and Cisco, right? I would sell the training and did that for many, many years and I would sell the training for this and this particular company. I had just transferred over because they knew because I was not going to do that. And they were talking about pulling the pain. I was like I’ll do I’ll pull pain. Watch me on the phone. Because money is never the pain. It’s always money is a symptom that will you know, have Have the pain if you will, I need that money because I’ll be able to fix this problem down here. always the case. So I got on the phone with this guy. He nearly started crying. I’m like, Dude, I’m sorry, man. But if you get the training, you can get that certification. You’re gonna make yourself 10,000 more dollars a year, like literally just by getting that cert man. You can rest assure that he did by the training, and he got his. He got his training, he got his certification and came back and got more training from me. Before seven months was up. So it really works if you put it to use right, just training and then going out and taking a test. Awesome. It was cool. About last year, it looks like you’re frozen. Christina Coleman  40:44   No, I’m hear okay. Oh, sorry. I was just listening. Michael Renfro  40:47   Yeah, Iknow. I went off a tangent. Christina Coleman  40:49   Okay. And I also think I’ve been looking at the wrong camera the whole time. So I’m trying to figure out Michael Renfro  40:54   I have two cameras. I have one that is the camera and then I have another one that doesn’t have the vibration shakes either. It doesn’t have that. And I that one though, is not hooked up to this. It’s too confusing. Christina Coleman  41:08   No worries. So I was just kind of, I was listening, but I was like, am I looking at him in the eye? Or am I looking at him and I now I can’t figure it out. Anyway. Michael Renfro  41:16   What’s the craziest thing you’ve ever done? Craziest thing? Christina Coleman  41:20   Well, it was interesting. I was not my son being 19. When I was 20, I left. And I went and I moved to France. And I had no phone and no phone in the apartment. No phone at all. And didn’t know where I was living. I’ve never been to where I was going. And my I was thinking of it about as as a parent and I thought my parents just let me go. And they didn’t know where it was going. They didn’t know the people I was going to be living with know anything about anything. And I thought, wow, I don’t know if I would have been in a school. Letting my son traipse off. It was a different time for sure. But looking back on it. Yeah, it definitely like looking back now at the time, it didn’t seem crazy. It was like, at the Michael Renfro  42:10   time it was 100% acceptable. Christina Coleman  42:12   Yeah. And then I came out. And then what came up Michael Renfro  42:18   and then taken came out? Christina Coleman  42:19   Oh, gosh, yeah. Now my mom really was a Michael Renfro  42:23   wake up call to a lot of people have what goes on in this world. And the sense that, you know, for every great guy, like we talked about earlier, that also means that there’s an equal to the balance, and there’s a really horrible dude, or group of dudes for that matter, that are doing, you know, horrible bad things. I would I would be definitely afraid I’m right there with you like the things that I did. I don’t know how close we are. But I was born in 72. And so like, you know, we were riding bikes around a large neighborhood. By the time I was five years old, like far from home in the sense that I would ride my bike to bike to this neighborhood that’s more than a mile like were you know, that’s how much it was, you know what I’m saying? It’s just it was a different, but at the same time, everybody knew everybody in that neighborhood all the way down the stretch of the road that I did we all they all worked at the same plant. You know, it was Eastman Eastman Kodak back then, now it’s just Eastman but back then it was Eastman Kodak and like, that’s one of those big company plants. Like they would have big parties. Everybody knew everybody. So they felt different about letting their kids run a neighborhood where every kid was a kid most likely have an easement employee. Whether they were blue or white collar didn’t matter. Christina Coleman  43:38   Yeah, it just definitely. Definitely feels odd to me that yeah, not odd, but I was like, I don’t know if I’d be that cool. Um, I’ve also well, you know, I did I did go skydiving one time, and I’m glad I did it. But I would never I would never do it again. You know, we did the tandem jump so we went the full height. Yeah, I think it was 25 and it was really cool. But I’ll never do that again. And then I also I’ll never I’ve been scuba diving where we went like by sharks awesome stuff and that I would do again because actually I’ve done that I did it for quite a while maybe Michael Renfro  44:20   did you feel very confident with the gear and the sense of like, you know, because my whole thing is breathing it’s one of my fears I won’t deny it like drowning losing breath like that’s one of the ones you know that I’m I don’t want to go out like that. Just give me a give me something to the head make it quick. Right but I definitely don’t want to suffocate drown or burn like those three or so like, how does it feel? how comfortable would you say you felt? Even in the first like the first moment you put that thing in your mouth and we’re breathing through that versus breathing? You know, traditionally, Christina Coleman  44:54   I was incredibly comfortable. I will say that I did not do a resort certification and I don’t recommend them I would do do a full on like in Chicago. Last summer I did a proper class. So I really knew I felt like I knew what I was doing. We were educated that way. Yeah. And I felt very comfortable on the I was a lifeguard and very comfortable swimmer, I felt. And so I, and we did our open recall open water in Thailand, which was amazing. And did a bunch of water. Crystal, that was like a shipwreck. And we saw all kinds of amazing animals. And I probably do a dozen dives up here and there Turks and Caicos Jamaica. And that’s something Michael Renfro  45:34   just out of curiosity. Sorry to come back to it. But what age do you think the ship was? Christina Coleman  45:38   Gosh, that’s a good question. It was, it was probably an early 1800s. So. Michael Renfro  45:49   Wow. So definitely pre 19. Christina Coleman  45:52   Yeah, it was older, was older. Michael Renfro  45:54   Did you go down and really look at it like swim around? Christina Coleman  45:58   So we did we did like so there’s they call them overheads. And you have to be specially certified. I was not certified for overheads at that point. So we just swam around and we did like one little tiny, Michael Renfro  46:10   you could probably go back now. Right? Like if you did it again, you’d probably have the ability maybe to go further today. Christina Coleman  46:15   Yeah, I can’t remember. So that was, this is a long time ago. This was actually 2001 that I did that particular that we started diving and yeah, I’d have to I’d have to go but I have no idea. A lot of these racks have been over, like over visited I guess and they’re not necessarily the regulations. Michael Renfro  46:37   They don’t want to I imagine that with every I know that sounds just gross and disgusting. But with every new swimmer brings new debris and dirt and you’re clear water starts to become not so not so clear. Christina Coleman  46:50   Yeah. And I never I never haven’t been back. I said Thailand. I’m sorry. I’m in Bali. It was Bali not Thailand. I went to Thailand. Beautiful. Also, Michael Renfro  47:00   obviously you made a mistake and like yeah, Thailand. I’ve never been there. But Christina Coleman  47:06   I have been there. I didn’t dive there. Michael Renfro  47:10   I verbally know that you’ve been to Thailand. Like I myself. I’ve only been to Mexico. I haven’t really been outside. That’s Christina Coleman  47:17   some great. Great diving there, too. Michael Renfro  47:20   Oh I can imagine my mom told me that. She’s done it down in Cancun. Now she did snorkeling obviously not diving, which is a bit of a different experience. But still, she said that that was a lot of just real quick, how, where did you grow up? And what it was? What was it like growing up there? Christina Coleman  47:40   So I grew up in Toronto in Canada. Yeah. Michael Renfro  47:44   Because that’s something that I have no idea like, how different truly is it from American American ways or whatever you want to call it? Christina Coleman  47:54   Um, well, it’s interesting. So Toronto, when I was growing up in the 80s, there, it was not the Toronto it is today. People are like, oh, so international. It’s so huge. And it wasn’t really like that. In the 80s. It was growing. It was quiet. It was a little quieter. I mean, it was still the biggest city in Canada, for sure. But we had I had a similar experience to you. And a lot of ways I could ride my bike as far as I could get. And my parents didn’t worry about it. You knew everybody in your neighborhood. You know, I would say the cultural differences are not enormous. Between certainly the Midwest and Toronto. I will say that when I was at Yale, I thought, oh, you know, it’s nice out here. But these people are a little tightly wound. I lived in New York, but I could never live there. And I I thought I would leave I said, Oh, after this is done, I will go back to Canada. And then when I came at Chicago, I thought, oh, I can live here. You know, it’s a lot of similarities. People more and more chill a little more. Kind of just Michael Renfro  48:53   doing the weather is similar. They’re in consideration Christina Coleman  48:56   very similar weather. Yeah, so I love Toronto, my parents, all my family still lives in Canada, I still go up there, you know, relatively frequently I still friends there. And who you know, who knows what the future may hold as far as we were talking about, but you know, it’s it was a wonderful place to grow up. I had a wonderful childhood. I’ve lovely, lovely parents and a great family. So I was very lucky. Michael Renfro  49:23   I love I love the continual mention of your parents. So I’m assuming that both of them are currently still around right now. Still with us Christina Coleman  49:29   yes, they’re actually moving from the they had big they after it became clear. My brother and I were not going to move back to Toronto. They moved out to the country 50 acres big house but they’re actually moving into the little town near where they live. So we’ve been a lot of, you know, the downs. They’ve been with downsize so I’ve been doing a lot of going through old stuff and lots of childhood things and stuff. So it’s been Michael Renfro  49:56   so it’s been a few tears nostalgic moments that you just didn’t know where gonna happen until you Oh, Christina Coleman  50:02   I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say I cried. But I, my mom almost cried because she’s like, look at all this stuff. That might Michael Renfro  50:13   be overwhelming. Christina Coleman  50:16   But I get it, Michael Renfro  50:17   I get it. It’s funny, though I share something else in common with you because I grew up. I grew up in South Carolina, but by the time I was around 12, my mom moved to just outside of Atlanta, and Atlanta back in 84 was not the Atlanta it is today. Like, I mean, it was really very, I mean, it’s like very, very similar. You know, back in 84, Atlanta had one tall building just one and that’s the peach tree Plaza. The, at the time, I don’t believe at all it is anymore. But at the time, when they built it, it was the tallest hotel, at least in the country. And I think in the world, right now. It’s not only the not not the tallest hotel in the world is not even the tallest building in Atlanta. It’s not the only villas. They’ve got skyscrapers all over the place, and they’re constantly going up that city is by 9614 years later, they had the Olympics, you know, so it went from being like this. I’ll get it. For instance, when I first moved in there. And this was, this was after so when I moved into Atlanta, I was 16 1717. So that’s 1989 When I moved in the population sign on Peachtree road read 2.4 When I left and 99, or technically technically 2000 was February 2000. But the last time I saw the sign and went downtown was in 99. And it read 5.20. Wow. That’s in just basically 10 years. Christina Coleman  51:55   Yeah, I had a case in Atlanta. Probably the like 2009 2010. And I was down there and it was happening. There’s a lot going on Michael Renfro  52:10   it lay that city is I remember watching it going from you know, just like I say a regular city to being no different than New York, LA Dallas Houston is 24 hours like I used to go to two of the original first 24 hour clubs club anytime and backstreets. Those were the two clubs, the first two clubs. And you know how they did it? Because you’re talking about a city that’s in the middle of the Bible Belt. Right? So they did it by the regulations allow that if you did a private club versus a bar, you can stay open 24 hours a day. So they charge everybody $1 for a year’s membership, a year’s membership. That’s awesome. Anyway, yeah, I have no problem paying you $1 to get in here for the rest of the year. So yeah, I mean, it was just after that it was open 24 hours a day. And they had you know, it was cool. They had different nights and all that stuff. So funny, funny to watch the cities grow the way that they do. So we already talked about college a little bit. So let me ask you, what’s your what’s your favorite podcast? Christina Coleman  53:24   So that is a good question. But I’m going to answer a different question only because I have had a couple of podcasts that I’ve enjoyed. But in general, I tend to lean towards audiobooks is what I listened to. And I was a bit of a snob about audiobooks. Initially, I thought oh, no, you need to hold the book. You need to feel the pages, you know, former academic recovering academic that Oh, no, no, no. And then I don’t know some a friend of mine Michael Renfro  53:53   dropped the headphone on you. Christina Coleman  53:57   Yeah, basically. And now I’m, I’m an addict. So I do listen to the odd podcast, I had a couple. I really enjoyed some of the sort of like documentary series on a podcast like the drop out, which was a while ago about Elizabeth about Theranos. And cereal. I really enjoyed the first season of that. And I was listening to you know, I listen to some of my favorite radio shows that as they’re delivered, but they’re not really podcasts but books. I’m listening to book all the time on audio, that’s an audio books and I I’ve because I’m very busy and I but I really enjoy having storming to listen to the stories it just kind of, I do mainly all fiction that I listen to, but I’m listening to like a real blend of old and new and Michael Renfro  54:45   gives me an idea of maybe going back because I never really thought about even making fun of a Seinfeld episode I thought about before but listening to somebody talk about the way that you’re talking about it because my biggest thing is I don’t have time to read But if you put it on audio then I can drive and read I can work and read I can, you know, there’s obviously there’s something that’s I can’t work and read but many many, you know, mundane tasks. Christina Coleman  55:11   That’s exactly that’s exactlyI clean. I do the dishes I do the laundry, I’m diminish all that stuff. I, I Michael Renfro  55:18   always book like, if you’ve never read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, like, boom, I just really read that stuff. Christina Coleman  55:24   I finally I finally read Anna Karenina, I finally read. You know, I was like, it’s all about the narrator. Just take one of the free samples, listen to five minutes, some of the narrators I couldn’t, I can’t, I can’t do so you have to make sure. Michael Renfro  55:37   That’s where you end up. It’s not the author so much as your favorite narrator and you look for imagine other books by that narrator. Christina Coleman  55:44   I love Maria and Ireland. She’s a fantastic narrator. And I just I’ve listened to several things. Michael Renfro  55:50   They are incredibly good reader, like they’ve got great readers like in the sense that they don’t. And if they do make a mistake, you’re never hearing it, obviously for the final cut. But yeah, that would be that’d be cool. Christina Coleman  56:02   But if you’d asked me 10 years ago, I’d say Ah, books on tape. No, that’s for No, no. Michael Renfro  56:09   Yeah, no, I believe me, there’s a few things like that in my life right now. I won’t bother telling you all of them. But there’s some things if you’d asked me about just even two years ago, I’d be like, Are you kidding? us that that’s come on that stuff. And these some of these things have been around for 20 years, I just decided that I always have that attitude. Many times that if it’s really, really popular, and everybody does it, that it has to suck, I noticed that that’s part of my growth that I finally am coming out of that like, hey, you know, you might actually like a lot of the things that a lot of people like, it’s not not a bad thing. I strive so hard to be indifferent that, you know, you sometimes lose out on some of the things that are enjoyable on any particular conferences that you that you like over any others, because I know immigration has a different, different blend of outings, if you will, and get togethers for what you folks do. Christina Coleman  57:00   So really, for immigration, you know, there’s local conferences, but it’s really all done through the American Immigration Lawyers Association, at least as far as I know. And the Federal Bar Association has some also, I just went to that big annual conference, which we hadn’t had for a few years, which was in New York in June, it was fabulous. I saw lots of friends generally enjoyed myself in New York, although I wish I hadn’t been directed that the hotel conference hotel was Time Square, because it actually was Javits Center, and I did not need to stay in Times Square, which nobody should ever say in Times Square. But it was wonderful, you know, it’s really just connecting with people, I feel like the live the net worth having not had it for a couple of years. And then having it again, you realize how much and just seeing people like it was all happenstance Michael Renfro  57:52   about that, though, you know, obviously, we all thought about not being in court not seeing your friends and your and your colleagues at work. But I didn’t think about the lack of conferences and never really dawned on me until just now though, because that was a time for most attorneys that if nothing else, I can look forward to this one time of the year, where cases are put on hold. And I can focus on other friends, other colleagues and other people doing the same thing I’m doing for a week or two, whatever it is Christina Coleman  58:17   yeah. And just running into people like the unplanned meetings with and so it was really a very gentle Michael Renfro  58:25   little conference, you’re gonna meet a few new faces that you’re like, hey, maybe this was the reason I came this year was to meet you. That’s cool. So last question, real quick, favorite tools? Or software? I mean, they could be excuse me, my oh my goodness. I’m gonna start that over all of a sudden I got like a bad film like a Jerry Seinfeld moment there where it’s not a pic. Cut that where is that? Okay, I’ll have to look at the record. Would you name a favorite tool and or software and again, it can be one of the same but something that you probably have illustrated this like, like name something that you couldn’t live without? Christina Coleman  59:13   So I am a recent convert to dragon which is an automation software dictation software. I know you’re terrible typist. When I was growing up in the 80s. I was told if I was going to be professional, I would have a secretary I didn’t need to learn how to type I was gonna I was gonna go Michael Renfro  59:32   bad people are telling you just get a secretary Christina Coleman  59:34   Yeah, no. I mean, people said you don’t need to learn how to type. Because I was at a sort of high level high achiever academic school. Again, it’s like no, no, you want to learn how you don’t need to know how to type. And then I’m like, oh, man, I really wish I’d learned how to type and I also have some issues, dexterity issues with my hands. So Dragon is awesome. And actually I’m just about to put it on my other computer as well. That’s, I tried it maybe Five years ago, and still pretty glitchy. But in the last couple of years, it’s really upped its game. And the only thing I don’t like their technology I’ve established is their headphones aren’t that great, but Michael Renfro  1:00:10   but you can replace those right? You don’t they’re not required to have the headphones. It’s just the mic is required from them. Right. The mic that you use? Christina Coleman  1:00:17   Yeah, I mean, they don’t break them apart. So Michael Renfro  1:00:21   they’re high standard. Did they not look on their website? Because I think they sell just a standalone mic, or there is one that will work with the software. Christina Coleman  1:00:31   That’s what Yeah, that’s a good idea. I’m going to I’m going to do that. Because just this morning, I actually have to I have a Bluetooth wanna plug in one. And I want to just holding them. But it’s, it’s fine. Microphones, right? Yeah, exactly. It’s great. Especially if I’m tired. I can just sit down and dictate was it I am? Emails, emails, emails? I could, it’s all emails. My day thing? No, I was just gonna say I the volume of emails is quite astronomical. Michael Renfro  1:01:02   I’ve been I’ve been doing a lot of things. And I have a lot of projects. And I if you can’t tell, I obviously have an entrepreneur, spirit in me. And that’s just part of you know who I am. And one of the things that I have really, it’s funny to talk about that. But I mean, like just over the last four months, you’ll understand why I’m telling you have extremely gravitated to talk to text. I’m like, I don’t even want to I don’t want to type another text out at this point. Now, because the technology has gotten to the point where even if it misses a couple of words, I’m usually typo in a few words anyway. So what the hell does it matter? Right? They’re gonna know that I meant give instead of good due to context of the even though it comes out that way. So anyway, yeah, it’s very similar. Because it’s such a time saver for me to do that, rather than try to. I mean, I’ve gotten fast. I almost feel like Rob Lowe on Parks and Rec, like, you know. But why bother if because, like, I’ll never do it as fast as I can talk. Yeah, you know, so yeah, it’s funny, I tried them a few years back, I bet you that a lot of what has to do is that they’ve learned a lot between Apple and Google, doing voice to text, and really learn how to fine tune that because it used to be a lot of commands that you had to give. And that was one of the things that I loved about Apple’s talk to text and Google’s both of them is the intuitive I don’t have to give, like the only command I give is punctuation at the end of a sentence or in the middle, you know, a comma. That’s, that’s the only, I don’t even have to, or paragraph, paragraph break. Excuse me. That’s it, you know, punch, punctuation, paragraph and page break. That’s really the only commands that I have to really use. Unless I’m copying and paste. I’m not talking about those. I’m just talking about, you know, as you’re going off, and I, I’m sure you remember before, it used to be a lot heavier. Just five years ago, it was a lot heavier and trying to get a whole Senate you’re like I gotta say all that. That tends to flow out of what I’m saying. Part of the beauty of it is that you you get into a flow. Christina Coleman  1:03:11   Yes, yes. And I’ve been impressed. It’s much better than it was it’s still, you know, obviously always room for improvement. But oh, Michael Renfro  1:03:17   and there’ll be an update in three days. Don’t worry. Yeah. Christina Coleman  1:03:22   It’s been, it’s been great., Michael Renfro  1:03:24   Well, this has been great, too. I really appreciate you coming on board. I know we talked longer. We’ll cut some of it down, obviously. But I really appreciate you being on, maybe we can reach out in a year or so and do like a come back around and see how the new firms since it’s literally launching here in days, see how the new name is taking because it’s not really a new firm so much as a new look and a new brand. Let’s call it that, right? Christina Coleman  1:03:48   Yeah, exactly. That’d be wonderful. And it’s great to be here and announce and also getting to know you a little better. Michael Renfro  1:03:54   I really, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure on my end. Christina Coleman  1:03:57   sure well have a wonderful day. Michael Renfro  1:04:00   I will and I when I say this, I made it. I truly believe everything else for a reason. When the meetings when these cancel out or somebody doesn’t show, it’s because we weren’t supposed to meet. So I know that when they do. We were supposed to meet and it’s a new connection and who knows where it will take us over the next 10 years. I say that because you really never know anymore. What’s going to happen after you meet somebody, right? For sure. Have a wonderful afternoon. Have a wonderful day. If you ever need any advice or if you ever have a question, we give free advice free of of expectation as well as free of charge. But to me the first one I think is the more important one when it comes to giving out advice. So if you ever need some help with anything, please feel free to reach out to us. Christina Coleman  1:04:41   Terrific I will thank you so much. Michael Renfro  1:04:43   Thank you. Once again Christina Coleman from Coleman Immigration today with us. I am Michael Renfro with Gladiator Law Marketing. This is 15 Minutes share your voice and that is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing. Thank you everyone for being here until we See the next time on the next episode same bat time same bat show Outro  1:05:07   Thanks for listening to 15 Minutes be sure to subscribe and we’ll see you next time


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