Empathy and Dedication in Trial Law With Tom Feher

October 9, 2024 | Written by Gladiator Law Marketing

Thomas (Tom) Feher is the Founder and CEO of Feher Law APC, which specializes in litigating catastrophic injury, wrongful death, and employment cases throughout California. At 40, he has tried over 50 jury trials to verdict, earning him notable recognition, such as CAALA’s Rising Star Award in 2018 and OCTLA’s Young Gun Award in 2017. Tom, the son of immigrants, decided to become a lawyer, influenced by his father’s work ethic and values. He has a background in psychology, philosophy, and political science and has cultivated his trial skills through relentless practice, improvisational theater, and mentorships within the legal community.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[1:20] Tom Feher’s early aspirations and career path in law
[3:31] The value of finding the right mentors and getting involved in organizations
[7:26] Feher Law’s founding story, core mission, and approach
[10:23] What are the most challenging cases Feher Law handles?
[12:29] Tom’s advice for those involved in motor vehicle collisions
[16:24] The importance of empathy and understanding clients’ stories
[21:00] Feher Law’s no-win, no-fee policy
[25:24] Tom’s advice for aspiring lawyers

In this episode…

What does it take to win in the courtroom — skill, strategy, or something far more human? Could empathy and relentless dedication be the true driving forces behind legal success?

According to Tom Feher, an accomplished trial lawyer, empathy is the foundation of building trust with both clients and juries. He explains that understanding a client’s personal story allows for more compelling advocacy rather than relying solely on facts and figures. Tom also highlights that dedication to honing his skills and committing fully to each case is essential for consistent success. Together, empathy and dedication drive courtroom victories and lasting relationships with clients.

In this episode of 15 Minutes, host Chad Franzen speaks with Tom Feher, Founder and CEO of Feher Law APC, to discuss the vital role of empathy and dedication in trial law. Tom explains how these principles enhance legal strategy, the importance of constant learning, and how they’ve contributed to his success in the courtroom. He also shares insights on building client trust and offers advice for aspiring trial lawyers.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Chad Franzen on LinkedIn
Gladiator Law Marketing
Thomas (Tom) Feher: LinkedIn | Email
Feher Law APC: Website | Facebook | Instagram

Special Mentions

Quotable Moments

“It’s better to be safe than sorry, especially when documenting medical conditions after an accident.”
“Being a trial lawyer is a depreciating asset; if you’re not using it, you’re losing it.”
“You have to be present and accept what the jury, the judge, the witness, is giving you at that moment and work with it.”
“Every case has a story that goes beyond the physical injury, and it’s our duty to tell it.”
“Do something you’re passionate about and that you really love. If you love being a trial lawyer, commit to it.”

Action Steps

Seek out and establish mentorship relationships actively: This provides invaluable real-world insights and networking opportunities that law school might not offer.
Develop presentation and improvisation skills: They can significantly impact your effectiveness in the courtroom by enhancing your adaptability and presence.
Document any injuries or symptoms immediately following an incident: This will ensure you have the necessary records to support future claims.
Understand the importance of empathy when representing clients: Every case is not only about the legal facts but also about the personal stories behind them.
Pursue continued legal education, engage in regular case practice, and seek out trial advocacy experiences: Doing so will consistently maintain and enhance your trial skills.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, where we deliver tailor-made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential.

To have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI, your firm needs to have a better website and better content. At Gladiator Law Marketing, we use artificial intelligence, machine learning, and decades of experience to outperform the competition.

To learn more, go to gladiatorlawmarketing.com or schedule a free marketing consultation. You can also send an email to ad**@gl*******************.com .

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:01

You’re listening to 15 Minutes where we feature community leaders sharing what the rest of us should know but likely don’t.

Chad Franzen 0:12

Chad Franzen here, one of the hosts of Share Your Voice, where we talk with top notch law firms and lawyers about what it takes to grow a successful law practice. This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, delivering tailor made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential to have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI your firm needs to have a better website and better content. Gladiator Law Marketing uses artificial intelligence, machine learning and decades of experience to outperform the competition to learn more. Go to gladiatorlawmarketing.com, where you can schedule a free marketing consultation. My guest today is Tom Feher, the Founder and CEO of Feher Law APC. His firm specializes in litigating and trying catastrophic injury, wrongful death and employment cases throughout California. At just 40 years old, he’s tried over 50 jury trials to verdict. He has been honored with CAALA’s Rising Star Award in 2018 and OCTLA’s young gun award in 2017 Thomas, great to have you today. How are you?

Tom Feher 1:12

Thanks a lot, Chad. I’m doing well. How you doing?

Chad Franzen 1:15

Great. Thank you. Hey, tell me how. And when did you know that you wanted to become an attorney?

Tom Feher 1:20

Great question. I was five years old when I decided, or chose I wanted to be a lawyer. And the short of the short story is I grew up playing ice hockey in Los Angeles, which is an anomaly to begin with. It’s probably the product of being born from immigrant parents from Eastern Europe. So they put me on the ice when I was really, really young. And my father actually was a mechanic. His hands were always dirty. And I remember a lot of the kids, parents would show up in suits. Their fathers would show up in suits. And I asked my dad, what do they do? And he said, they’re lawyers. And I I just said, because their hands weren’t dirty and they were in suits, I was like, I was like, I think I want to do that. And so once I said, I want to be a lawyer. I think everybody around me, when I would say that, family members and friends, teachers, they just sort of pushed me or nudged me in that direction, and I just continued down that path, and it ended up being the right one.

Chad Franzen 2:18

Wow. So that was so from that time until adulthood, you never wavered.

Tom Feher 2:24

Well, no, actually, I wavered here and there. I ended up triple majoring in college and in psychology, philosophy and political science. And oftentimes I’ll joke and say three BAs is just one BS, but I thought about grad school and potentially getting into a program that I create studying sort of post genocide, post conflict resolution in different countries and and trying to sort of heal the wounds that are that have arose from from those conflicts. So very different idea, and it was something that I have a real interest in. I also caught a little bit of the theater bug. Even though I’m from LA. I was not really Hollywood inclined, but I got into theater in high school, doing performance group improvisational shows. So I got into improv, which was actually a great tool for being a trial lawyer.

Chad Franzen 3:24

So, you know, you decided to go to law school, take me through your journey. You know, from law school, how did you kind of break into the legal industry?

Tom Feher 3:31

Yeah, I It’s funny, you want to be a lawyer. You think you’re going to be a lawyer. I go to law school. I graduate law school, and I don’t even know what a lawyer does, and it’s sort of tongue in cheek, but I think we use very little, from what we learn in law school, if you’re a trial lawyer, that is, it’s very much the practice of law, and a lot of the things that you do in law school, they might be great for academia, or great if you’re going to be a judge, but maybe Not so great if you’re going to go out there and practice, or if you’re going to go out there be a trial lawyer or have your own business. And one of the things that is really missing from law school, that at least I noticed, is the business side of things, and that’s where you have to just go and seek out mentorships. So a big part of law school for me was finding the right mentors, finding the right people. I got involved in CAALA as a law student, which is the largest plaintiff organization in the country. I’m a board member of it now. I speak regularly for them. So finding those things, finding the mentors and the things that you want to do was a big part of my law school journey, and I sort of found a way to spend a little bit less time studying, which maybe that’s not the best advice for some people, but I learned how to study the outlines and prepare for the exam at the end of class. So I could do a lot of things that I. Enjoyed a little bit more like join the trial advocacy team or the negotiation team, and I found that to be closer to the practice of law than sitting there and reading cases and then try to put them in a certain, you know, context for for the professor.

Chad Franzen 5:19

You mentioned that you you kind of had an interest in theater, and I know you are a successful trial lawyer. Did the two go together at all?

Tom Feher 5:28

100% I mean, there being a being a trial lawyer, I feel like there’s being a lawyer in general. There’s so many intersections of different disciplines. And maybe that’s a critique of our education system, is that there’s not enough cross section or cross reference between disciplines, I really find that things are interdisciplinary and sort of creating these silos can be, can become problematic. I think one of the foundational cornerstones of improv coincide or dovetail really nicely with with trial, and that is, when you’re doing improv, you’re constantly in the mode of yes and meaning you’re accepting what’s happening at the moment. It forces you to become present. And that’s something that I think is critical as a trial lawyer, is you can’t go in having your own agenda and try to manipulate people or try to get people to do things you want. You have to be present and accept what the jury, the judge, the witness, is giving you at that moment and work with it.

Chad Franzen 6:26

Do you think that that your background in that gave you an advantage? You know, I talked about kind of the recognition that you received at a young age, at a relatively young age, do you think that gave you an advantage? Or do you think most of these people have have kind of realized what you just said.

Tom Feher 6:40

I’ve had so many disadvantages, I don’t know if it gave me an advantage. There’s so many things I had to work on to become an effective trial lawyer and and being a good advocate, it helps. So I think the more that you have an open mind, the more that you do and work on it’s going to give you an advantage. But being a trial lawyer, the skill set is a depreciating asset, so if you’re not using it, you’re losing it, just like anything in light, really, but ever more so as a trial lawyer, it’s, it’s one of those skill sets you have to keep fresh. And as you know, most cases don’t go to trial. So I’m regularly teaching or practicing or working on cases even when I’m not in trial.

Chad Franzen 7:26

So how did your firm Feher Law, how did that come about?

Tom Feher 7:30

I was, I was a trial lawyer. I grew up like deaf I think my first case was in my late 20s, and I dedicated my life and craft to sort of developing those skills. And then I was with the firm for eight years, and I’m very loyal, and I give everything to somebody, and in relationships and the things that I do, I give everything. And it came to the point where I felt like I had a scratch I needed to itch. And my father, I guess you could say was an entrepreneur too, or had his own business as an auto mechanic. And back before you took your cars to, you know, the dealership or wherever you purchased them, there was mechanics out there. He was an old school handshake, honest, blue collar, you know, business guy. And I felt that I needed to try to see if I could open up my my own firm, and grow it more in line with the vision that I have, which is really to be there for all of the consumers who don’t have access to a good lawyer. There are, there are tons of lawyers out there, and unfortunately consumers are, unaware of what makes a good lawyer versus a bad lawyer. They see a billboard or they see, you know, somebody that’s marketing a lot, and the assumption is that must be a good lawyer or a competent lawyer, and oftentimes that’s not the case. And so I felt like I had, you know, a duty, almost, to start my own practice and to reach out to the people in my community and be a lawyer for them.

Chad Franzen 9:06

So kind of given that, how would you describe, you know, the core mission and approach of Feher Law?

Tom Feher 9:11

It’s a people. It’s people first. And I mean that in every sense, it’s not only the people that we serve and represent. It’s the people within our team too. For me, it’s it’s really important that people feel good about what they’re doing, they believe in what they’re doing. And really, you’re going to find out fast whether this is the right place for you or not. We see it almost as a calling the way that we we help people and serve people. The insurance companies out there are not really in the business of paying out claims. If they were, you wouldn’t need lawyers, right? If, if people did something wrong and they they paid for it, whatever they did wrong, you wouldn’t need lawyers or or a judicial system, right? Because you’d say, okay, that person took care of it. That’s just not, not how it exists. So you have to have. Sort of a belief in what we’re doing, because it’s not easy work. It’s not a nine to five. I work all the time, and I’m sort of never not working. So it’s a commitment to something bigger. And I think the people and our team, the people that make up our team, they feel the same way.

Chad Franzen 10:17

What would you say are some of the most challenging types of cases that you guys specialize in?

Tom Feher 10:23

That’s a that’s a tricky question, because, as you say that, I feel like a lot of the cases we have, or most of them have something challenging about them, and if a case doesn’t have a lot of challenges, it usually doesn’t get litigated. It usually doesn’t get tried, right? The cases that are not challenging are gonna resolve the vast majority of the time, unless you have just a really bad adjuster or defense lawyer or the House counsel or somebody on the other side that’s really not recognizing the risk of the case, I’d say. And I think, I think I think almost any trial lawyer would probably agree with this sentiment. The toughest cases out there are going to be where you have somebody who’s in a very seemingly minor looking motor vehicle collision, and they’ve got some catastrophic or serious injuries. It’s very hard for the average person, and myself included, to look at, look at an incident. And I guess you should start, I should start from my perspective. But you look at a case and you’re like, how did this person end up with a spine injury when they got bumped, or it looks like they got bumped, right? It was just, it was just a very minor type of fender bender, these types of words. But we know that people are not motor vehicles. They’re not made of steel, and we know that they are vulnerable to injuries, and spite is one of the most vulnerable body parts to injuries. But getting that point across to a jury, it can be very challenging, and that’s that’s a testament as to why some of the greatest trial lawyers aren’t trying those cases. You know, on a regular basis.

Chad Franzen 12:00

You know, I know that. I know that you, you guys, do catastrophic injury, wrongful death and employment cases. So I expected you to say that those maybe were the most challenging. But you said, you know, maybe an accident that looks minor, but maybe the result of the accident wasn’t minor. Well, what kind of advice, you know, I’ve probably been in accidents like that, and I never called an attorney. What kind of advice would you give to people who are in those kinds of accidents? Should they just assume that they’re going to be done right? Or should they assume not or see what happens?

Tom Feher 12:29

I would say anybody that’s involved in any type of motor vehicle collision, it’s better to be safe than sorry, and from a legal perspective, that means go to the doctor if you, if you’re feeling a little bit off, you know, the sooner you do that, the better is you’re getting documentation. And that’s important, because that’s what the insurance companies rely on, is they say, Well, if you were hurt, why didn’t you go to the doctor? Why didn’t you go to the emergency room? And I’m also the type of person that, if I if I am hurt, I’m the last person that wants to go to the doctor. I’m like, it’s gonna go away. But the problem with that is, symptoms may get worse over time, and then what the insurance company, or whoever it is on the defense, whether it’s a governmental entity or insurance company, that they’re gonna say, Well, if your injuries are that serious, why didn’t you go to the doctor for a week right after the incident, or within a few days? So really documenting what happened, not only by taking pictures and reporting it to your insurance company, but documenting the symptoms you’re feeling, however minor they are, right? Because if you go to doctor, say, Look, I’m feeling off. I’m shaking up. You know, my back is sore. I’ve got a headache, these kind of things, at least it’s documented there. So in the event it gets worse, you’ve got it set up right away that it’s you took it seriously.

Chad Franzen 13:42

So if you, let’s say you grew up, your parents had an insurance agent. You became an adult you, you know, took over. You have that insurance agent. Now, should you assume that they’re going to do right by you?

Tom Feher 13:57

Well, there’s the insurance companies, you know, they break up, right? You have, they break up who’s in charge of what? So the person that’s selling you the policy isn’t the one that’s going to be, you know, paying the policy. But you know, you have instances where your own insurance company, I recommend everybody get underinsured and uninsured motorist coverage, because right now in California, the only requirement is that if a driver hits you, they only have to have a $15,000 insurance policy. So you get hit by somebody who only has $15,000 in insurance coverage, but your injuries are significantly more than that, and the harm that’s caused you significantly more than that. Well, you’re not going to be able to get more. I mean, generally speaking, you’re not gonna be able to get more than the $15,000 unless you have what you have underinsured motorist coverage to supplement that, or you do what’s called Opening a policy, which is a whole other can of worms. Or you can talk about bad faith and how insurance companies work so you’re. Your agent’s never going to be the one that’s really dealing with you, and really whether your claim gets paid out is going to be, you know, determined by the insurance carrier for the other driver that hates you.

Chad Franzen 15:11

Oh, gotcha, yeah, of course.

Tom Feher 15:12

I will say this, though this is something that just this is a bigger piece of advice that cases generally will settle or resolve for greater value if you litigate them. So the one of the one of the differences between a firm like ours, which litigates and tries cases, is we’re going to get greater value on our cases because the insurance company knows that we will take it to trial. So there is, there’s a difference there. And the insurance company, just like people that watch sports and rate and rank different players on you know that they’re watching, whether it’s basketball, baseball, football, whatever, the insurance companies are doing. The same thing with attorneys. They know if you’re the type of attorney that’s going to settle for less than the case is worth, they know if you’re the type of attorney that litigates cases or that tries cases, they have all of that information in their database. So they have people pegged right from the from the get go. Very interesting.

Chad Franzen 16:16

So I know your firm, you said, is it kind of a people first mentality? How do you ensure that you know, your clients receive that kind of impeccable service.

Tom Feher 16:24

We’re constantly checking up with our clients. That’s something that’s really, really important to us. And I listen to some other people that are doing intakes, or that are talking to their clients, or they’re signing up cases, and oftentimes I never hear them say, How are you doing? And it’s, it’s mind blowing to me. It’s, it’s so important, just if somebody tells me that, I mean, you’re obviously coming to me, whether it’s in an injury or whether it’s something that happened with your job, and you may have lost your job. I mean, that’s one of the scariest things. I couldn’t imagine, not not having a job or not being able to work and put, you know, food on the table, that’s incredibly scary. And it’s not like it’s getting any easier for folks in this, in the US. So I’m asking somebody how they’re doing, I mean, and I think it’s just leading with with empathy from the start. You know, we have people who have suffered brain injuries or emotional injuries, and someone might say, well, this person seems like they’re rude, or I don’t understand why they’re they’re behaving that way. Or, you know, whatever it may be, or you know, they’re telling you one thing and then saying another. I said, Well, you know what? If they’re, you know, they have a brain injury, it’s affecting their memory. Well, that, you know, that’s what’s going on. Or if they have a brain injury, there’s people that will just cry uncontrollably, and it’s not because of some psychological issue, per se, it’s because they’ve got a brain injury that’s affecting that part of their brain. So I think being empathetic, understanding, you know, where people are coming from and their story, I think that’s one of the most important things, is understanding their story. So people might look at a case that we have and they might wonder, how is it possible that for somebody who suffered a broken leg, you’re able to get a one and a half million dollar verdict? How? How are you able to do that Tom and it’s it’s not because there’s a million dollars in medical bills. There’s no medical bills. It’s a broken leg for an elderly woman, and it’s by understanding the story. And I’ll give you a quick little example, just based on that case alone. We had a woman who had end stage renal failure. She was on on dialysis. She was demented. She only had she’s she was an amputee of one of her her lower extremities, bedridden, and she was being transported to and from dialysis and a non emergency medical transportation vehicle, in other words, just it’s not an ambulance, and they did not strap her incorrectly. And by not doing that, she fell out of her chair and broke her femur of her good leg of the leg she had and and I asked myself at first, well, what are the damages? Because the leg healed, she was she was healed, and I went to go visit her and spend time with her and her children at the the home she was staying. And one of the things I noticed is that every time a nurse came up to her bed, every time I came up to her bed, or one of her children came up to her bed, or grandchildren, she would flinch almost like like, if you, if you’ve seen a dog in a shelter or a kitten in a shelter that’s been abused, right? And they, they’re they’re fearful. And what I realized was they didn’t, they didn’t just break her leg. They broke her trust. And for a dependent adult, Trust is everything they have, every ounce of independence that they can’t left right. Because if you’re dependent all these people and you don’t trust them to treat you well and turn you over and change you, your quality of life diminishes even more. And that was the story behind that case. And so with every case, whatever the injury is, there is a story there beyond just a broken neck or a. Surgery or a loss of a limb, there’s so much more there, and we do everything possible to learn that story, if it means hanging out with our clients at their house, spending time eating dinner with them, getting to know their family and friends. We live and breathe our clients stories.

Chad Franzen 20:15

Do you find that because of that, you maintain kind of a long term relationship with the clients?

Tom Feher 20:21

That is one of the things we have clients that, you know, they stay with us, and it’s a little different, right? When you’re doing injury and employment law, there’s not, it’s not like a repeat business. We hope not, right? We hope people don’t have to use us again. So we are always in contact, always staying in touch with people seeing how they’re doing. They, you know, we end up being friends. They’ve, you know, we have, we’ll have little, little parties for for our clients, things like that. So it’s nice to always hear from them and see that they’re doing well.

Chad Franzen 20:54

I know you have a no win, no fee policy. Can you? Can you kind of elaborate on that?

Tom Feher 21:00

It’s absolutely there’s, it’s nothing uncommon for injury lawyers, or even for employment lawyers, we’re putting our own skin in the game in all of these cases. So if I take a case to trial, I’m investing probably anywhere from 100 to 200,000 or more of our our money. That’s not, you know, not from the bank or anything like that, but aside from just us investing the time and then also the money in representing the the people that we serve, we we lose. There’s, you know, we don’t charge anything. Everything is is done on a contingency basis, meaning we’re working for you for free up until the settlement or the resolution. So we only get paid on the back end. So every case is a potential risk for for everyone. So if we don’t get you the money, you don’t have to, you don’t pay us or owe us anything.

Chad Franzen 21:55

Would you say that most attorneys that you consider you know, bringing in as part of the firm already embody the kind of the trust, loyalty and empathy ethos, or do you have to be pretty selective?

Tom Feher 22:11

I think you have to find the right fit. So, I mean, when we’re interviewing people, there may be, I mean, yeah, there’s people that’s always gonna, they’re always gonna tell you things, right? But then you find out whether they, you know, they walk the walk, and that’s okay. And our firm is, is not for everybody, and there’s some people that you know fit better in a different context. So if you don’t have that ethos, you’re you’re not gonna fit here. And that’s, again, I think that’s okay. People have to find the right fit. And we tell people up front, this is a two way commitment. And so if it doesn’t work for you, that’s okay, let us know. And same way, if it doesn’t work for us, we’ll let you know real fast.

Chad Franzen 22:55

When you first started your firm, you know, you talked about how you kind of recognize, like, I’m just learning kind of, you know, educational type stuff, maybe, maybe theory, you know, law theory, not, not real world, especially running a business. Were there some things that really jumped out at you and surprised you? I know you sought out mentorship in that regard, but were there still kind of some things that were like, Oh yeah, I didn’t think about this.

Tom Feher 23:20

This may be a bit cynical, but maybe you don’t realize just how how much of of what you don’t want to be a part of exists out there and and I think that’s probably true in every industry. I don’t think it’s particular to the law, whether you want to get into finance or sports or whatever there’s, there are always people that it’s better to avoid and not do business with. And I think that’s just something that maybe, if you’re just getting started, or maybe if you are naive, or if you wear your heart on your sleeve, like like I did, and do that could be like I said, my dad was a handshake kind of guy. And sure enough, two guys that worked for him took advantage of him and were stealing from him because he was just an honest, you know, blue collars, you know, straight up, just handshake kind of guy. And thought that’s how the world works for the most part. And unfortunately, it doesn’t always work that way. So I think one of the, the biggest lessons you can you can learn. It’s just, hey, some things may go wrong, and you got to keep going and you learn from your mistakes and who to work with and not work with. And just, you know, keep your eyes open.

Chad Franzen 24:33

I have one more question for you, but first, tell me how people can find out more about Feher Law.

Tom Feher 24:39

Best way to find out about us is on our socials, so Instagram, Facebook, you can learn about us on there. Our website, www.feherlawfirm.com, and Feher is not spelled like you think it would be. It’s Feher, you can Google me and find out all sorts of stuff about me. If you DM me, I check our socials. So I’m always happy to talk to people directly. Message me, email me. My email is just to*@fe**********.com I try to make myself available to anyone who’s got questions.

Chad Franzen 25:19

Last question for you, I know you’re a successful trial attorney, you mentioned maybe there’s a gap between the real world and law school. What advice could you give an aspiring lawyer, maybe who’s just about to finish law school on what could you tell them that they might not have learned in law school that would really help them? Maybe, especially when it comes to being a trial lawyer.

Tom Feher 25:42

There’s so much I would want to say, because I feel like I’ve learned so much about what it takes to be a trial lawyer. And I don’t want to just give somebody some basic platitudes, or, you know, things that you hear all the time, but I feel like I’m going to anyway and and sometimes you need to be reminded of of these simple things. I would say, if you, if you’re really hungry to be a trial lawyer, a lot of people say that they want to do that. It takes an incredible amount of dedication and work. And I think the best things that we do or can do is to do something that we’re really passionate about and that we really love, and I wanted to be a trial or so bad that I dedicated. Mean, I when I say I dedicated my life, I mean, I was in trial when I got engaged to my wife, and then I ponder off to my mom to hang out so I could go prep my client for trial, or my wife and I wanted vacation over New Year’s, and I had to leave her and fly back to Los Angeles on a red eye to start a trial on January 2, because the judge wouldn’t move the case, even though the holiday was the day before. So you you have to commit to this and and in order to really commit to something, I think you got to love doing it, and I love being a trial lawyer. So if you don’t, if you don’t love it, that’s okay. It just might not be for you, but do something you love.

Chad Franzen 27:15

Sure, yeah, great advice. Hey, Tom, it’s been great to talk to you. Thanks for all of your honest insights and thoughts and stories. Really appreciate it.

Tom Feher 27:23

My pleasure, Chad. Thanks for having me.

Outro 27:25

Thank you. So long everybody. Thanks for listening to 15 Minutes. Be sure to subscribe and we’ll see you next time.