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Mastering Legal Prowess and Client Engagement With Michael Eisenbaum

June 28, 2023   |   Written by Gladiator Law Marketing
Michael Eisenbaum Michael EisenbaumMichael Eisenbaum is the Managing Partner of Gray•Duffy, LLP, a firm specializing in litigation and dispute resolution across various legal fields. With a diversified practice encompassing extensive litigation experience, Michael has successfully represented numerous individuals and businesses in premises liability, contract liability and enforcement, personal injury, and property damage litigation. He demonstrates expertise in handling a range of civil lawsuits from inception through trials and appeals.
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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Michael Eisenbaum shares how he got into the law field and his early years in the practice
  • What Michael does as a Managing Partner for Gray•Duffy, LLC
  • Michael’s involvement in firm advertisement and attracting clients
  • The value of writing articles for professional journals and trade publications
  • What differentiates Gray•Duffy, LLC from its competitors
  • Michael predicts how the legal industry is going to evolve in the upcoming years
  • Michael’s advice for up-and-coming lawyers

In this episode…

In the world of law and litigation, a successful practice hinges on a thorough understanding of legal intricacies and the ability to build strong client relationships. Combining legal knowledge, effective communication, and client advocacy is a balancing act. Michael Eisenbaum, a Managing Partner at Gray•Duffy, LLC, demonstrates mastery in this field. He offers more than just in-depth knowledge of insurance defense and business litigation. What sets Michael apart is his dedication to client communication and understanding his client’s needs. Discovering his passion for the legal industry was not predetermined, but shaped by unique life experiences and a relentless drive to succeed. In this episode of 15 Minutes, host Bela Musits delves into an insightful conversation with Michael Eisenbaum. Together, they explore Michael’s role as a managing partner, his involvement in the firm’s advertisement, and what differentiates the firm from its competitors. Michael also shares the value of contributing to article publications and insight into the future of the industry.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, where we deliver tailor-made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential. To have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI, your firm needs to have a better website and better content. At Gladiator Law Marketing, we use artificial intelligence, machine learning, and decades of experience to outperform the competition. To learn more, go to gladiatorlawmarketing.com or schedule a free marketing consultation. You can also send an email to adam@gladiatorlawmarketing.com.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:01 You’re listening to 15 Minutes, where we feature community leaders sharing what the rest of us should know but likely don’t. Bela Musits  0:12 Hi, listeners. I’m Bela Musits post for this episode of the 15 Minutes share your voice podcast, where we talk with top notch law firms and attorneys about what it takes to grow a successful law practice. This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, delivering tailor made services to help your firm accomplish its objectives and maximize your growth potential to have a successful marketing campaign and to make sure you’re getting the best return on investment. Your firm needs to have a better website and better content. Gladiator Law Marketing uses artificial intelligence, machine learning and decades of experience to outperform the competition. To learn more, go to gladiatorlawmarketing.com where you can schedule a free marketing consultation. Today’s guest on the podcast is Attorney Michael Eisenbaum. He is the managing partner of Gray Duffy LLP, a litigation firm with offices in Woodland Hills and Redwood City, California. Recognized as a US News best law firm. Gray Duffy provides a diverse range of legal services to businesses and individuals as well as insurers and their policyholders. Michael specializes in the areas of premise liability, contract liability and enforcement, construction defect, product liability, professional liability, personal injury and property damage litigation. He is a regularly called upon to speak and has written many articles on timely legal topics. Welcome to the podcast, Michael. Michael Eisenbaum  1:53 Good afternoon. Glad to be here. Bela Musits  1:55 Yeah. So tell me a little bit about how you got into the law field. What was your inspiration? Michael Eisenbaum  2:03 It’s actually kind of a unusual and possibly funny story. I, you know, through college, never even envision going to law school or becoming a lawyer. And one night at one of those, you know, happy hour festivities that you have in college at some bar. Friend of mine, I actually wasn’t part of his conversation. I overheard him talking about next steps because we were all seniors. And he was talking about going to law school. And I was actually applying to other schools for graduate school and things of that nature. And I was like, law school. That might be worth checking out. So I ended up applying to a few law schools, including Pepperdine University in California in Malibu, California, got accepted there and went and checked out the school and of course, it’s beautiful. It’s in Malibu overlooking the ocean. And I was I was actually with my father. And he went with me to look at the school and he goes, Is there any choice here? And I go, I think the choice is made. So I went to law school enjoyed law school, was good at it. did well and got a got a job through on campus interviews at a fairly large downtown law firm. And took off from there now. Bela Musits  3:39 Yeah, what what were those early years like, right, so graduate from law school, this is your first year working for a big firm. describe that a little bit for us. Michael Eisenbaum  3:51 You know, I was I was a little bit intimidated at first being a young lawyer being very green in a big law firm. And I was actually at that law firm for about three years and didn’t really like the you know, big law firm environment give you an example. The managing partner at the time kept referring to me as Mark see me in the hallway Hi, Mark. You know, the everybody didn’t know everybody. And even though I corrected him two or three times he kept calling me Mark and finally I just stopped correcting him. So I looked for something a little bit more personalized into a law firm and actually ended up here it Gray Duffy, it was back then it was known as Gray York and Duffy. And it was, you know, a a medium sized law firm, you know, in the area of 15 to 20 lawyers, which I kind of liked and It was more of a, you know, a boutique environment, if you will. Yeah. Bela Musits  5:06 So is G and Duffy, you said when you joined was about 15 lawyers is that 15 partners or 15 lawyers total? Michael Eisenbaum  5:16 That was about 15. Lawyers total. We’re still in that range. We fluctuate up and down. Actually, I mean, we’re trying to grow, it’s hard to find good lawyers, we’ve got plenty of work. You know, the clients like us love us. Yes. And send us a lot of work. And I’m overworked. My partners are overworked. And it’s really difficult to find right now, for some reason, in years past, it wasn’t hard to find lawyers, yeah. You know, lateral positions, you know, 510 year experience or somewhere in that range. And nowadays, it’s like really hard to find a good quality lawyer that really, you know, loves the profession wants to work hard, wants to do well, wants to become part of a firm and grow with the firm. It’s hard to find that right now. And I’ve, I’ve talked to other partners that other similar sized firms and even larger firms, and they’re having the same issues. Hmm, interesting. Bela Musits  6:17 So you’re managing partner there. So how does your responsibilities different from a, I’ll use the word normal is probably not the right word to use, but sort of a person who’s just the partner? Michael Eisenbaum  6:30 Well, kind of following up on what I just described, because we’re, you know, right now understaffed in terms of lawyers, I literally have two full time jobs. One is the managing partner, which is managing the business of the firm. And part of that includes, you know, supervising the various other lawyers in the firm to make sure the quality of our legal services are up to par. And also just running the business of the firm, I have to oversee everything from making sure we’ve got enough, you know, and I’ve got staff that handles Sure. And I have a weekly staff meeting to make sure everybody’s doing what they need to do. So that is extremely time consuming, and would be a full time job in and of itself, while at the same time having a full time job as a litigation attorney handling cases, trying cases. I just got done with a trial a few months ago, that took me out of the office for three weeks. And it took me about six weeks to catch up from from doing that. So, yeah, that’s the real difference is you’re you’re running the business as opposed to just being a lawyer and handling cases in you know, mixing with the clients, developing business, and things of that nature. Bela Musits  7:49 Yeah. So you may not be directly doing this, your staff is but you know, getting the offices cleaned, making sure you know, the lights, the electricity, bills paid, etc, you take care of all of those things. Michael Eisenbaum 8:06 I make sure they get taken care of. And one of the things give an example, we recently moved our office. So with the assistance of my office manager who really took the laboring or and all the little minutiae that’s needed to move a law firm into a new office building. But in negotiating the lease, I made sure I required the building itself to provide nightly janitorial service, for example, so that the carpets are vacuumed every night. So when everybody comes in, in the morning, the office is clean and ready to go. As opposed to for example, my son’s bedroom at the house, which is never clean. Even five minutes after it’s been cleaned. Yeah. Bela Musits  8:49 So hey, I’m curious. So you know, as as a managing partner, you’re you’re doing lawyering, and you’re running the business. In law school, do they have a course or courses on how to be a managing partner, you know, how to run a law firm? Michael Eisenbaum  9:07 Not when I went to law school, and I, you know, I mean, they don’t they teach you the legal issues of the law. Yes. And then there are some that are, you know, for example, there’s a course I took in law school called trial practice, that helps you understand, you know, what’s procedurally involved in a trial. And you also take civil procedure courses if you’re a civil litigator like us. And I think it’s actually required for everybody, as well as criminal procedure. So you get those backgrounds but, you know, law school doesn’t necessarily teach you how to be a lawyer. It gives you the foundational knowledge to understand the law. And then it’s up to you to employ that in whatever practice you either join or possibly start on your own. Most lawyers join a firm because they don’t know what the heck they’re doing. Yeah, and they’re right out of law school, there is some training to be a lawyer. That’s both on the job. And in you kind of have a mentor and, you know, I’ve in years past signed up as a on the mentoring program for my law school so that graduates can, you know, me have somebody to talk to? So I’ve done that in years past, for people to, you know, give back a little. Bela Musits  10:29 Sure, sure. I think that’s important. You know, it’s often overlooked, I think the value that a mentor can bring to a younger professional, and you know, somebody to bounce ideas off of, or just share experiences with? Michael Eisenbaum  10:45 Yeah, it’s, uh, you know, I had a little bit of that, you know, when I did summer law clerking with lawyers, they were a little bit of mentors, didn’t didn’t really have a mentor at the first big law firm. When I came here, you know, I worked in a practice group under one of the main partners doing certain things and then move to a different group. So you get a little bit of mentoring there. But as you know, as time evolved, and our practice evolved here, ultimately meet leading to me becoming managing partner. My mentor was really the previous Managing Partner, Gary Gray, who taught me everything I know, as far as running the business of a law firm. Bela Musits  11:33 Yeah. Now as Managing Partner, do you get involved in sort of in advertising the law firm and being responsible for generating incoming clients? Michael Eisenbaum  11:49 Yes, I do quite a bit of that. We have a, a PR firm that we use to that assists us with things. When we write for example, we write legal, I’ve written a number of articles. And they and the PR firm will find publications that are interested in those articles in the legal community, or in the specific niche of the, you know, the industry that our clients come from, such as construction. So I’ve written articles for construction publications, I’ve written articles for claims journals that are often read by insurance, people. You know, because some of our work comes from insurance companies and such. So it’s all and that gets your name out there. And we’ve actually had people, potential clients that become clients contact us saying, Yeah, I read your article, would you like, Would you be interested in giving a presentation to our company? And that’s, that’s a foot in the door with a new client. Bela Musits  12:56 Yeah, I’ve always thought that sort of writing articles for professional journals and trade publications, is sort of a great way to get your name out there, get the firm’s name out there, because you have this instant stamp of credibility, that that’s sort of established, as opposed to, you know, getting a billboard on the side of the highway. Yeah, and they’re  all important. But you know, I think a lot of people overlook the opportunity to write articles for these public trade publications in particular. Michael Eisenbaum  13:29 And that’s true, and it’s, and it’s a time investment. Because, you know, you know, we know what we do, and we know, you know how to do it. But sometimes it’s good to be able to communicate issues that we find that we’re dealing with, that’d be good to let the industry know, hey, you know, there’s this issue out there. Here’s some suggestions on how to guard against these problems that we see typically come up. And then, you know, people in the industry may read it, hopefully read it. And they’ll be like, Wow, I had that same issue. Maybe I should call this guy. Yeah. So it does work. But it is it is an investment in time. Bela Musits  14:12 Yeah. Yeah. I’ve known a couple of people in the past who were very clever at being able to take the right one article, and sort of repurpose it and use it in multiple different places, you know, rewriting parts of it, as opposed to having to generate a whole new article. Michael Eisenbaum  14:29 Yeah, and that’s what’s great about the law is there’s always new appellate or Supreme Court cases that give a new wrinkle on particular legal issues. So if you’ve written an article in the past, you can update the article, or you can repurpose the concepts that you’ve discussed in an article into a presentation for a particular client and just you know, develop a little PowerPoint slideshow present to people, which now a lot of that is being done through through the internet through Zoom, you know, webcasts and things of that nature. Bela Musits  15:05 Yeah. So what’s sort of the ratio of your clients kind of individuals versus corporations? Michael Eisenbaum  15:13 You know, it, I mean, it might vary year to year, I would say there’s, there’s a lot of a lot more of individuals. A lot of times individuals are just kind of one off cases. And sometimes it’s a company that will come to us, and you know, whether it’s a small construction company or small business, they have certain needs in litigation, or they’re being sued, or need to sue for some reason. So we have, you know, a good mix. And then you have the institutional clients, which are primarily the insurance companies. And what’s interesting about working with insurance companies and representing their insurance their policyholders is, we’ve had a lot of success after, we might get an assignment from an insurance company to defend ABC Company, get to know them get to know their business, and of course of representing them, they like what we do, and then they have other legal needs. And then they start retaining us directly, as their personal counsel on a variety of of needs, that businesses have that result in the need to call attorneys. So we try, we try to help our clients basically make them better business people from a legal perspective, so we can avoid common pitfalls that could lead to litigation. Bela Musits  16:42 Yeah. Do you also do legal work for other law firms? Michael Eisenbaum  16:47 At times, we have, like any, like many, many law firms, I should say, sometimes I know a lot of lawyers, obviously, you know, a lot of people, people know us. So when they, they might have a client that they can’t, that has a particular need that doesn’t fit their expertise. But they’ll be like, Hey, why don’t you call Gray Duffy, my guys and bomb over there? I think he can help you because that’s what he does. And of course, we do the same thing. I mean, if we don’t do for example, wills and trusts, probate matters. Yes. So when a client of ours says, Hey, I’ve got a situation, do you guys, can you guys write a will for me or, you know, set us up a trust? We can’t I don’t do that. I never got into that. wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that. So I know, other lawyers that I would refer that to, that I know and trust. And same thing with like criminal matters. I’m not a criminal defense attorney. Although I have represented some fairly close friends, and when they get in trouble on small criminal matters, and just, you know, taking care of those situations for him, but I have not yet I tell them, I’m not a criminal defense attorney, but I can I think I can help you out. Bela Musits  18:07 Yeah, yeah. So the, the legal space seems like a pretty crowded space, right? I’m constantly seeing various different advertising, whether it be on the internet, or on TV, radio, etc. What sort of makes your firm kind of stand out. Michael Eisenbaum  18:27 It’s more, you know, we’re actually selective of the clients, we, you know, that’s why we don’t put our name on billboards and bus benches. And, you know, the TV ads that you see a lot of, particularly in Southern California, and other states now that that has grown, as far as the advertising goes, particularly in the personal injury arena. We do a lot of personal injury cases, primarily on the defense, but for friends and family of the firm will take on the plaintiff side from time to time to make sure that, you know, those clients are treated, right. If it’s something we can’t handle, we’ll refer it to, you know, a pie firm that I know and trust. Yeah, which is not one of the ones you would ever see on a billboard. Because they just, you know, they, those types of things, they end up with volume. And there’s not much selectivity involved. So, you know, when they’re dealing with hundreds of new clients a month because they advertise on TV all the time and their phone, you know, just rings off the hook. And they have people processing and screening claims. That’s not what we do. What makes us different is we actually take the time to get to know our clients get to know their needs. With respect to their business, we really get to know what they do in their business. Give you a quick example. Through an insurance company I got signed, signed a case to defend a A unique contractor that that manufactured a specialized coating system that was used in water treatment plants and sewers and all this stuff. And I knew nothing about that I knew how to litigate a case, I knew how to litigate a product case. And this was essentially a product defects type of case. But I didn’t know anything about this particular product, or, or anything, and I really took my own time, not charged to the insurance company, to get to know and understand the ins and outs of the client’s business. And that impressed him so much that after I resolve that case, for him, and the insurance company, he has hired us on a number of occasions with some of the intricacies of his business, on some of the other things we do to look at his contracts, if he was entering into a new contract with an agency or, you know, a facility to provide coating products, you know, and they’re all trade secrets are involved and things of that nature that I that I learned, and he was impressed by the fact that I actually took the time to get to know his business, and understand it, which I think is essential when you’re representing somebody. Now, you know, there’s been a lawyer’s don’t do that there to stay stay superficial. Bela Musits  21:24 Yeah, there’s, there’s a really nice theme here that that has been going on in our conversation. And that is, if you do a really good job for your customers or your clients, chances are, they’re going to keep using you and come back to you and actually broaden the portfolio that they give you. Right. And that’s really the best, best way to get clients because they already know you, you already know them. And you know, the cost of acquiring a new client is so much higher than holding on to an existing client. Michael Eisenbaum  21:56 Very true. The existing clients, I mean, clients do come and go over the years, including, you know, major clients. So you’re you are always, as you know, running the business of law, you know, trying to plant seeds that are going to grow for the next big client that’s going to give you work for years to come to keep, you know, not just yourself, but other lawyers busy as well. And it’s also important that we try to give our lawyers here, diversity in terms of the types of cases that they handle. So they get kind of a well rounded experience. So each lawyer might be handling a handful of construction type cases, some personal injury cases, some business litigation cases. And even within the personal injury realm, for example, you have different types you have, you know, you might have auto accidents, you might have product liability, you might have premises liability. So there’s different types of cases that you’ll deal with, across any particular legal category as well. So there you have all those subcategories that you become familiar with as well. And that keeps things ie interesting for the lawyers avoids the common burnout, of just doing the same grind every day. And it enables you to, you know, come across some interesting legal issues. And then once you, you know, employ certain procedures within the issues that you recognize, that can oftentimes become the good but a good basis for an article and sharing it with both the legal community and the industry that becomes clients, or is a client. Yeah, very nice. Very nice. Bela Musits  23:45 Was there sort of like a turning point in, in your sort of legal career where first of all the light went off and said, Boy, am I glad I went to law school? Am I really glad am I doing this? Michael Eisenbaum  23:59 Um, you know, it’s just kind of I’ve been practicing now for 32 years. I mean, my 33rd year, graduated law school in 1990. You pass the bar right away, went to work at that firm I described. Yeah. And one of the things I mean, I’ve always I became, excuse me, I became intrigued after my first jury trial, which actually was at that very first firm, they actually let you know, a young lawyer a year and a half or two years at a law school. Try a case it was a small case. So you know, if the worst happens, it wasn’t gonna be bad. Yeah. And I was I was simply defending a charter bus company on an accident. An unusual accident where the where the bus driver left the luggage doors. This is back in the big bus charter buses where people would take long trips, and they have the luggage compartments under the bus. And I guess the the day had opened the doors and the driver left the door unattended and didn’t latch it properly. And so when the plaintiff came along to put his suitcase, in there, the door fell down, whacked him on the head and knocked him out for a minute. And that, believe it or not went to trial in front of a jury in Orange County, California, my first trial, and I enjoyed that. And it came out. Well, I ended up admitting liability. Yes, it was our fault. We shouldn’t have done that. But I employed some strategies that I thought would work. And they did. And the jury actually ended up giving me a defense verdict, even though the guy was actually hurt a little bit. Yeah, they didn’t like the fact that, you know, that the lawyer referred him to doctors, and they ran up these huge medical bills. And in talking to the jury afterwards, and I even suggested, Hey, give him a given 235 $1,000. You know, it’s our fault. You know, that’s really what it’s worth. And they figure that since this is since they ran up, like 12,000, and medical bills, and there were medical liens, that if the jury awarded him money, it would all go to these sheisty doctors anyway. So the jury decided to give them nothing. And I was like, wow, and I, you know, I came back to the firm after, you know, being in trial for a week in Orange County, and a big smile on my face. And, you know, the the partner that had assigned, it was one of it was one of his clients. He goes, boy, I’d embedded the house and the kids against that one. So they were impressed. And that actually got me in very good with that particular client, as well, because I did a good job for them. Yeah. And it was an insurance company that ensured the charter buses. So once I did that trial, I was like, you know, I really like presenting things to a jury and educating a jury on what our case is about, and also advocating for a client, even in, you know, what might be an otherwise negative situation. Yeah. You know, and that’s, that’s a small example. And as I tried a few cases, they got bigger and bigger. And I’ve tried different cases. I’ve tried cases involving landslides, one in Santa Barbara, 1012 years ago, maybe longer. And so, you know, I always viewed myself as I can try any case, because I will get to know what the issues are and invest the time and effort necessary to coherently present the case to a jury. And I think, you know, I, I can make get juries to listen to me, you know, it’s not to say, you know, I haven’t lost a case, try, because juries can be strange, they can agree with everything you say, and then decided for the other side. That and that’s happened. And that’s happened. So, you know, particularly in cases where, you know, there’s no way I’m going to win this. Which is actually the worst case to try is the one you’re expected to win. Because if you win, well, that’s what we expected. A big deal, right? But if you lose this, like, you’re supposed to win that that was an easy catch. What’s wrong with you? All right. So that’s, you know, I always like to try the more difficult case where it’s like, hey, you know, I don’t know if we can win this. I’m gonna give it a shot. But you know, if we can settle it, you know, we’re prepared to go to trial. Yeah. Yeah. Bela Musits  28:39 So if you look into your crystal ball to look out for the next five years, how do you think sort of the legal profession is going to evolve? Michael Eisenbaum  28:49 Well, one thing, and it’s one thing I don’t necessarily like, and I think it was a result of, you know, the COVID situation with the lock downs, yeah. Nowadays, a lot of people will take depositions remotely over a Zoom connection like this one. And you depose a witness, but you’re not in the same room. The same thing with mediation, you know, a lot of cases go to mediation these days. mediators who are good at settling cases have very lucrative practices. I thought of becoming a mediator, but and I’ve acted as a mediator for the courts as well. In years past, I don’t have time for that now, but I respect a lot of mediators, but and a lot of mediators are handling the mediations over zoom. Again, I think the in person aspect is being lost in the profession. People are too comfortable sitting at their desk or at their home. When they’re either taking a deposition or as a witness. You’re being deposed and all you got to do is I know under your computer, answer some questions, shut off the computer and go about the day. Whereas I prefer if I’m particularly with an adverse witness, you know, the adverse parties. Yeah. You know, you know, if I’m defending a personal injury case, it’s the injured party. Well, I need to see that person face to face, I need to size them up personally. And I need to see the little nuances while they’re testifying to know if they’re credible or not, or am I being, you know, fed a load of crap? Because oftentimes, you are right. And, you know, it’s hard to pick up on those nonverbal cues over a video screen, as opposed to in person. Sure. And same thing with mediation, you know, a lot of mediations are being conducted remotely now. Although they’re starting to get back a little bit to normal, in person, but I think when you’re in person trying to settle a case, and you’re at, you know, a mediators office, you’re, you know, you and your client are there, you’re committed, you know, you took the time out of your entire day to drive there be there trying to settle it look, the other side, and the I personally talked to the mediator personally, I think it’s more productive. That’s not to say I haven’t settled cases, over remote mediation sessions. But in particularly, you know, the one on one cases where it’s just us in them, as opposed to in multi party cases. I think it’s better to all be sitting around, and they do separate you into different rooms. So you don’t reach over the table and strangle each other when there’s not looking. But by and large, I think, I think the practice of law is something that’s done in person even experimented with jury trials doing those remotely. And that was a disaster. Yeah. So. So those those I don’t envision going remote jury trials, you know, where you’re talking to 12 people on a video screen and a judge in the middle, right? You’d rather be there standing in front of every everybody banging on the table, and, you know, sure, being a little animated so that they can see and this is this is real. It’s not a television show. Bela Musits  32:26 Right. Right. Yeah. Good point. Good point. So if there’s a young budding attorney listening to this, you have some words of advice for them. Michael Eisenbaum  32:38 Yeah, I mean, having having been a mentor, it’s really, you know, think what you want to do. And, you know, start, you know, what, you may not know, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. It’s like, Hey, I got a job. That’s all I cared about. When I graduated law school, I’ve got school loans to pay back, right? So you kind of end up where you’re at initially. But if you don’t like where you know, where you’re at initially, or you know, the practice that you’re engaged in currently, or at first doesn’t seem right. One, give it a give it a fair chance, because it may grow on you, as it did for me. I mean, in terms of litigation, and a lot of lawyers never get to experience a jury trial. Yeah. Which for me, kind of, was it? I mean, that’s what that’s what I love to do. And put yourself and I ended up in a situation where now I can do that, even though most cases settle, and don’t go to trial, but they do periodically. You got to be capable to do that. But I think you know, it after giving it a fair, fair shake, you know, if the type of practice you’re in, you want to change, you know, you’d rather be a criminal defense attorney, don’t hesitate to make a change. You know, explore what’s right for you, as a young attorney, and then and then once you feel like, you know, this is I think this is it, this, this seems I like this, stick with it, and become good at it and become the best at it. And that’s when you’ll really be successful. Bela Musits  34:15 Yeah. Yeah. So if people want to find out more about you, or more about Gray Duffy, where’s the best place for them to go? Michael Eisenbaum  34:24 The best place I mean, we have a website at www.grayduffylaw.com. So that’s got all the information about our lawyers, the types of practice areas we engage in. It’s also a link to all the articles we’ve written. So and when we publish articles, you know, it might have my at the end of the article or at the beginning of the article, it might have my picture and my phone number, then people people are welcome to call me. I mean, usually if they need to talk to an actual lawyer, they can call our office at 818-907-4000. It’s been our number for over 30 years, we’ve been in the Valley for almost 35 years now. And we we enjoy providing legal services in this community and all over California. I mean, I’ve got cases from San Diego to Sacramento, okay. When When clients call and say, Hey, I have a case in, you know, Sacramento or Humboldt County, even, I’ve had a couple up there. A lot, we do have the Northern California Office for something that needs to be done live and in person. But a lot of times I don’t have to fly up there to go to court, if it’s just a routine court appearance, that can be done remotely, doesn’t always necessarily require you to be standing in front of the judge, although I would prefer to stand in front of the judge. Bela Musits  35:58 Yeah, yeah. So Michael, is there something that I have not asked you that you’d like to share with our listeners? Michael Eisenbaum  36:08 Not really, I think, I think the points we covered in general, our, our what we’re about, and again, I think, I think what distinguishes us, and one thing I didn’t mention, in addition to is basically, getting to know who our clients are and what they do to, you know, give them the best, most effective representation possible. We also pride ourselves on communicating with the clients. So, you know, the number one complaint with the State Bar from clients is, I never hear from my attorney, and when I call him, he doesn’t call me back. Yeah, so we have a regimented philosophy that we employ and practice of, you know, even if the clients not calling you you should be calling them or writing to them. Frequently, you know, not overkill, but frequently enough to the to where the clients know that, you know, they’re in good hands. Their case is being handled. It’s moving along, so they don’t have to pick up the phone and go, what’s happening with my case? Yeah, yeah. Good point. Yeah. That’s, that’s what distinguishes us. Yeah. Bela Musits  37:21 Yeah. I think that communication is a good tip for all sorts of professionals who interact with, you know, customers or clients for sure. Michael Eisenbaum  37:30 Yeah, I think I’ve done a seminar for a client on that very topic. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. Education is key, especially the written communication, because, especially in a lot of companies, businesses, it’s like, well, I told them that they couldn’t do that. And they went and did it anyway. I’m like, great. Where’s the email to the to the to your customer telling them that because that’s your defense. Right? If you don’t if it wasn’t in writing, the conversation gets denied by the other side is ever gardening. And now you gotta He Said, She Said, and but if you got if you got a writing to back it up, you can’t deny it. Yeah. Bela Musits  38:09 Yeah. Hey, Michael, thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast. I really enjoyed our conversation. You were great. Michael Eisenbaum  38:17 I appreciate being here. Thank you very much. Outro  38:22 Thanks for listening to 15 Minutes, be sure to subscribe and we’ll see you next time.

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