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Running a Business With Dedication and Compassion With Senen Garcia

Running a Business With Dedication and Compassion With Senen Garcia

January 18, 2023   |   Written by Gladiator Law Marketing
Senen Garcia Senen Garcia is the Managing Partner at SG Law Group, where he has developed a strategic approach to evaluating cases and can often detect issues well before his clients know there’s a problem. He has over 14 years of experience practicing law and assisting clients with their corporate, tax, probate, and property insurance claim needs. Senen is the Director of the Miami Reef Initiative, Corp, a Professor at EU Business School, and an Accountant at Garcia Tax Enterprises. Senen graduated from St. Thomas University with an MBA in business administration and management and from St. Thomas University’s College of Law, where he received his JD. He also holds a BA in entrepreneurship and international business from Florida International University’s College of Business.
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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Senen Garcia explains why marketing is crucial in a slow economy
  • How to turn your passion into a delivery medium to help others
  • Why taking chances can lead to opportunities
  • Senen shares how his proudest moment helped his firm during the pandemic
  • Why you should want to surround yourself with others who will support you
  • Senen talks about having the courage to delegate and empower your staff
  • The reason why you need to separate work and personal life
  • Senen discusses his passion for diving and restoring the coral reef off the Floridian coast
  • What was growing up surrounded by entrepreneurs like?

In this episode…

When you’re running a business, when is the best time to delegate? Is it possible to become a strong leader that can take your company to new heights? Running a law firm is not for the faint of heart. Senen Garcia knows that to be an effective leader you need to cast vision for your staff and delegate tasks — empowering them every step of the way. Surrounding yourself with others who encourage you will help you achieve your business goals. While setting goals is pertinent for growth, running a business isn’t all about numbers. For Senen, the greatest reward is giving back. His drive to encourage unity and assist his clients during difficult times is his motivation. In this episode of 15 Minutes, Michael Renfro sits down with Senen Garcia, Managing Partner at SG Law Group, to discuss key steps to becoming an effective leader. Senen talks about molding your passion into a career, having the courage to lead your business during difficult times, and surrounding yourself with positive forces. Senen also discusses his work restoring the Floridian coral reef.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, where we deliver tailor-made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential. To have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI, your firm needs to have a better website and better content. At Gladiator Law Marketing, we use artificial intelligence, machine learning, and decades of experience to outperform the competition. To learn more, go to or schedule a free marketing consultation. You can also send an email to

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:01   You’re listening to 15 Minutes, where we feature community leaders sharing what the rest of us should know but likely don’t. Michael Renfro  0:13   Hello everyone, Michael Renfro here I’m the host of 15 Minutes share your voice, where we talk with top notch law firms and lawyers about what it takes to grow a successful law practice. This episode as always, is brought to you by Gladiator Law Marketing, where we deliver tailor made services to help you accomplish your objectives and maximize your growth potential, excuse me to have a successful marketing campaign and make sure you’re getting the best ROI. Your firm does need to have the best website and the best content at Gladiator. What we do here is use artificial intelligence combined with machine learning and most importantly, now well over 100 years of combined experience specific to law firms and their marketing needs. And that is what helps us outperform the competition. To learn more, please go to That’s And today’s guest is Senen Garcia. And Senen, why don’t we start off just by? You know, by the way, thank you for being here. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me. And wants to start off and just tell the folks where you are and what your main practice areas? Senen Garcia  1:21  Well, we’re in Miami, Florida, although we do service the entire state. We’re primarily based in the south Florida area. The primary areas of practice that we focus on are mergers and acquisitions, tax and probate, we also do first party property. Michael Renfro  1:39 Okay, so you got I mean, it seems fairly all related, but but a bit of a gamut there where you can really help someone from beginning to end sort of speaker. Senen Garcia  1:50 Oh, yeah. I mean, we we, we help people, we can help individuals in the sense for the first party, as well as with the probate matters, and even in tax. And then in the tax, you kind of have an inflection because we can also help with tax debt for business and personal, and then it switches into the mergers and acquisitions side. Michael Renfro  2:06  That’s pretty cool. So here’s my my always my first question, how did you get started in that particular? That arena? Is that was that from the beginning? Or is that something that has transpired over your time as a lawyer? Senen Garcia  2:21   So it’s a very good question. So believe it or not, in another life, I was an accountant, I actually did a lot of x. Michael Renfro  2:28 I believe that, Senen Garcia  2:29   you know, I I’ve actually owned many businesses, I actually might my as crazy as it sounds, I own my first business when I was 12 years old. Michael Renfro  2:36 It was mine was a lawn business. So Well, there you go. Senen Garcia  2:40 I, you know, I I’ve been, to me owning a business has been second nature, you know, because my family is all you know, everyone in my family is always on businesses. They never really worked Michael Renfro  2:49  came from an entrepreneurial family, then. Yeah, yeah, Senen Garcia  2:53  we did all sorts. So to me owning a business was, you know, kind of like automatic. So I started off learning about businesses. I love business, obviously, because I’ve been running businesses, all my life to tax really opened my eyes to a nuance of tax in terms of, you know, reporting and credits and things of that sort. So that really got me interested in the business aspect. As I started my law practice, I became more fascinated with the mergers acquisition Michael Renfro  3:24  side, I introduced tort law, if you don’t mind me, just Senen Garcia  3:27   So well, okay. Okay, 14 years now. Gotcha. So this was, of course, around the time where you know, everything the entire economy was Michael Renfro  3:38  a bit of a stink, right? Yeah. It’s Senen Garcia  3:41 actually funny because I, we started to grow because it was I saw I had a partner in a prior business. And he had an interesting thing. He was in marketing. And he would say, you know, one of the biggest things that businesses failed to realize is in a downturn, that’s when they need to be marketing more, right? Because it’s usually what people the first thing people cut, they cut marketing, and they said, no, no, that’s the thing you need to be Michael Renfro  4:04 cutting. That’s cutting your let’s like, literally cutting the food off and saying, Hey, how are you going to survive without me feeding? Yeah. Senen Garcia  4:11  So I remember that. And I kept marketing. And actually, at the time, online marketing wasn’t what it was today, as crazy as it sounds. So I you know, I started doing really basic stuff, because, you know, my knowledge and it was so still somewhat limited, but it worked, you know, and it brought in clients and I started to stumble upon clients that needed acquisition agreements, and they needed issue had issues with tax that were beyond preparation, which I was used to, it was more like, look, the taxes are done, everything is done well, but I can’t pay this. And from there, I started to see what I could do for them. And in that it was very fast. And I was like, well, I could, there’s a lot of movements here. There’s a lot of Michael Renfro  4:54 openings. There’s a lot of a lot of different moving parts for you to help. Yeah, Senen Garcia  4:59 and And from there, I just started to really expand into those areas probate and the first party. They came around a little later, the probate, I’m sorry, the first party that came around, that kind of just fell in my lap, I was an attorney that was retiring. And he, you know, he, he was just done. And he said, Listen, I have this practice. And if you’re interested, we’ll work out a deal where you can take over. And that’s what we did that was that right? There was Michael Renfro  5:30 and years ago, so right, kind of just a perfect time. Right. Right. Senen Garcia  5:34 Yeah, that was, yeah, that was just happened there. And that actually helped with revenue growth. Because up until that, you know, we were making money, but we weren’t making, you know, the money that we eventually started to make. And that that kind of just you had an established practice that had all these all these files. And so that kind of really helped out. Michael Renfro  5:56 What would you say that your biggest turning point was when, when that when that happened for you, Senen Garcia  6:02 that was certainly one of them, that was certainly one of them. That one, that one really pushed us into another level, where, you know, we started have a revenue stream, that was not only consistent, but was you know, was decent. And that allowed us to, again, pour more money into marketing reinvest into the firm in that regard. It also allowed us to do a few other things, such as, you know, expand our staff and get us in a better, more structured position. Because at that point, we were still running it like a startup in a way, you know, very, very bootstrapped very limited resources. But it allowed us to kind of formalize a lot of things within the firm. So that that part, I really, I really think was definitely a turning point. Another. Yeah, and it was, you know, it was, it was a great opportunity that we took advantage of, Michael Renfro  6:56  oh, no, I mean, I you love when those you know, although I’ll say this, just just my personal take on it, those things tend to happen to people that have put them in the right, put themselves in the right place, as well as excelled in those areas for people to take notice. Right, your shine, you know, to this individual was obviously enough for him to hand over what he had built, you know, and that’s, to me, that’s quite rare, because usually they want to hand it to child or, you know, another family, somebody, right, somebody other than the non non related I should say, that’s, I think that’s pretty awesome. Yeah. Senen Garcia  7:34  Yeah, no, I. And it’s funny, because it it taking that on, obviously, up to that point, I didn’t have a lot of familiarity with an essence Insurance Law. What I came to realize is something that I realized way back in law school, which is, you know, the law is simple, and rich, really think about insurance law is really just contract law. And it’s just breaching a contract. That’s the insurance policy. So from there, it’s just a matter of reading statutes and seeing what the regulations were behind it. But that was, once you know, where your starting point is, it’s pretty much just, you know, keep going. And, you know, the other thing that I think also helped was when I first started out, and I think it goes a lot to the fact that there’s there’s a certain type of attorney or individual for that matter, that wants to start their own business and even more so as a as an attorney, because most attorneys they’re not, they’re not interested in Michael Renfro  8:25  most of them want to find a firm find a home and a nest and know that all I have to do is perform my legal duties. And these guys will market and take care of getting cases. Senen Garcia  8:36   Exactly, exactly. And when I started comfort zone, you know, it is it is and I look, you know, everybody is everybody has to do what makes them feel happy and comfortable. I absolutely. I’m the type of person where I am most comfortable outside my comfort zone. I feel antsy when I’m in my comfort zone, Michael Renfro  8:54 you know, to push yourself like if you’re not if there’s not a challenge ahead of you, then what is it? It’s why I tell people like the day I stopped learning is the day I started dying immediately. Like, you know, I mean, what we’re already dying every one of us and I get that, but like truly die, because I have nothing left. And there’s no way I’m ever gonna get to that point right now not to sound rude or existential. But every question that I answer, it gives me three, four, maybe sometimes five more questions. So it just becomes an exponential thing of how much can I learn before I leave this this plane of existence? Senen Garcia  9:24   It’s true, no and, and you want to continue to find your passion, because when you find your passion, you start to want to learn more about and just want to get more involved. And it was it was that actually that got me into more learning more about tax debt and learning how I could really help clients. So, you Michael Renfro  9:43   know, pause for a second if you don’t mind. I want your take and your opinion on this because there’s two different schools of thought on the whole idea of do what you love, right? To make money. And I think the vast majority of us believe that and I think that that’s obviously Do what you believe. But I’m curious what your opinion is on that. There’s some people that say, you know, by doing that they end up. And I have my opinion, but I won’t hear yours first. But they say, you know, don’t do what you love as your as your money, save that for your pastime, because you will end up not liking it anymore if it’s your job. And I’m sure you’ve heard that, that that school of thought, What’s your opinion on that? Senen Garcia  10:24  Well, maybe I’m lucky. I’ve read I think I’ve heard that very once in passing, and I didn’t think it was serious. I didn’t take it serious. I am of the school of thought if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life, so you never have to worry about. And I remember many years ago, I was seeing a certain someone and I told her that she wanted to be an astronomer, and she said, Oh, there’s no money in astronomy, but you love it. So but there’s no money in it. And then one day, I was looking through top jobs in the in the area, and they were paying six figures for astronomers. Right? It’s a different world. And I said, Go ahead, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say listen, if you do what you love, the money will follow. The problem is is that we get into this mess, this, this mantra that we got to follow the money because money is happiness, and I go right and money is a tool that will help you achieve happiness. But money in and of itself is not going to make you happy. You have to have something that you enjoy the money will always fall if you do what you love. The money will always fall. Michael Renfro  11:21 Yeah, I’m I got you beat by a few years. So that’s only a good thing for you, right? But I came into sales. And one of the first guys that really hit me hard, I’m sure you’ve heard his name, because he’s also spoken about within the legal arenas, but Zig Ziglar. And, you know, part of his entire mantra, right is that is exactly the same thing. You do what you love. And you also when you’re doing it when it comes to taking care of clients, because, you know, to me, an attorney is nothing more than a very well educated and licensed salesman, right. And I say that because I’ve also been an insurance agent, I’ve done other things where I’ve carried other licenses as well. And you guys have to go to a lot of school and I get that. But essentially you’re you’re a salesman at heart in the sense that you’re representing and you’re trying to convince someone else no matter what it is, or you’re trying to teach them how to do this, or you’re selling them on using your services when it comes to contract. Right. And my only point is that if you take care of your, your partners, clients, whatever you choose to call them, and not worry about how much money you’re gonna make from then again, the money always comes and what I find I wanted to come back to my opinion on those folks is that they haven’t actually found what they truly love. They thought they loved it. But if it is worse than it wasn’t truly love, because like you I am of the school that when I love something, I only want to learn more and doing it is enjoyable. It might be a task that takes time. But I enjoy doing that task. And I enjoy taking that time to do it from beginning to end. Because I LOVE what I’ve created in the at the end. You know, that’s the biggest part for me, and I’m sure you get that as an entrepreneur when you really get to look at what you’ve created. Especially when it’s Senen Garcia  13:04   I mean, I have a you know, you kind of hit it a little bit when you said, you know, we’re all kind of dying and to an extent you know, we have a finite amount of time. Why would you want to spend it doing something you don’t enjoy? I mean, if there’s one thing I appreciate it is I always talk to individuals that are obviously elderly and whatnot and one thing they’re always say the regret was is I didn’t do X sooner. I didn’t do this. Michael Renfro  13:27 I didn’t take this chance. I didn’t go with this. The missed opportunities is the things that we end up regretting I think the most Senen Garcia  13:35 Yeah, you know, and that’s that’s one of the reason why I started the firm in the first place I said I want to start Malphur I don’t want to work for a company and I remember talking to an attorney young attorney the same age as you know same animals of age but same experience level and Michael Renfro  13:48   she rage attorney Yeah. Senen Garcia  13:52   And it was hilarious. She was trying to outright dissuade me in going she kept giving me all these barriers. Oh, you’re gonna get in trouble with the bar. And you’re you’re you’re not supposed to be doing this earth and all I kid you not. I didn’t obviously I didn’t listen to her. But I just kind of stopped and kind of took a step back and just listen to what she was really telling me what she was really telling me is how can you be this brave and maybe this scared? Why are you know why can’t I have that and if I can’t be this brave then you can’t Michael Renfro  14:20 then you shouldn’t be allowed to write and I didn’t Senen Garcia  14:23 care I mean and here I am to this day I’m not in trouble with the bar and not having any issues. And I still go strong and it’s just I I believe in doing those taking those opportunities taking those chances because again, you know, we’re only on this planet for however long we are and we have to do what makes us happy what gives us that that that joy that need to live now otherwise we’re just waiting to die Michael Renfro  14:51   you know when I’ve when I’m not doing anything a lot of people asked me they’re like you say you’re all because my friends family. Every time they text me What are you doing working and they They read working as that I’m unhappy. Yeah, right. Because I have I like you entrepreneur, and I’ve started several businesses and sold them. And I’m working on things always, I always have other projects that I’m working on. And they take up my time from morning to night, you know, between working for gladiator and doing what I’m doing. They take up all my time, but I’m, I’ve never been happier than I am right now, Senator never. And it’s, it’s because not only am I doing what I love, I do love sales. I’ve always loved it. As long as I’m giving that client, something that I can back, something that I feel good about something I know is going to help them, right. That’s always been one of my things as a salesman. But there was something you said, what was it? You know, we only find great reward when we are willing to risk it all. And anybody who has gotten reward will tell you, I don’t care if they got it young and you look at them as young or lucky, which a lot of people do. Like, for instance, I don’t really care for the guy. But he risked it all in the sense of where he was Mark Zuckerberg in doing what he was doing. I mean, he could have been, you know, ridiculed, and thrown out. I mean, there could have been a lot of different way that that went, right, it was a risk. But without great risk, you’ll never achieve great reward. I mean, even coming down to buying a freaking lottery ticket, you’re taking a risk at it at home, maybe my dollar will be the one right? So I truly believe in the risk factor. And that brings me to my next question. You said it was one of so what do you think would be your proudest milestone? Senen Garcia  16:37 It’s a very interesting milestone, that I walk I don’t I don’t wanna say I walked away from but I didn’t think about it. And it was it was a silly milestone. It was just, it’s more like, it was crazy. The other day, I sat there. Um, so when I was young and stupid. I, you know, I used to have this mind in my head, say, oh, I want to make a million dollars. And, you know, I, I remember saying that that was my goal, when I was in college to make a million. And over time, I would hear the phrase from a lot of successful multimillionaires in your first millions always your hardest. I said, okay, and it was, it was true. And little, not not too long ago, I was not even paying attention just added up the numbers and in assets, we hit a million dollars, graduation. Thank you. And I was like, I, it really it. I went back to when I said that stupid comment. And I said, I mean, first of all, I was like, wow, look along. But then at the same time, I said, I didn’t think I was ever gonna hit it. I was like, you know, I’ll be alright, I’ll be okay. I’ll be, but the fact that I hit it. And now, you know, they, and I remember those same men telling me Look, the first mine’s always difficult, but after the first one, you’re gonna see, it’s easier now. I’m like, I’m seeing all these opportunities and things are growing. And it’s like, wow, this guy’s really I mean, they all were the same name really true. And it was just, it was it was somewhat surreal. You know, because it was something that I said, thinking that that was, you know, a goal. And here I am, I had achieved it. And, and it was, these personal milestones that I’ve I’ve hit that have really been important to me, one was hitting a point where I was financially independent. Hitting the point where, because, you know, one of the things that motivates I’m sure most entrepreneurs is that fear of failure, and it motivates you to continue to succeed. And I always, you know, always felt that I was around the corner, there was destruction, waiting, and, you know, being the poor house, and I reached a certain level where I knew that wasn’t going to happen anymore. You know, and, and that was a milestone where, you know, no matter what we can weather a storm, you know, when Coronavirus hit, you know, I was having a conversation with someone about it. And he, you know, we had this talk about, oh, you know, how are you going to hold up and I said, we have cash, I am so cash heavy, that we could completely shut down the entire firm, which somewhat to an extent, we kind of did all that we didn’t, and I can pay out everybody and I would not miss a beat. And talk to me about something being a situation like that 10 years before, and I would have told you every day I will be checking the bank account to make sure I check to Michael Renfro  19:40  make sure everybody got paid and nobody’s Yeah. Senen Garcia  19:43 So you know, reaching those milestones have been have been very rewarding. You know, it’s kind of like it’s, it’s kind of like a vindication to a lot of not only to yourself, but to others who Michael Renfro  19:58 write to other people that may have doubted Do not to be it’s not a it’s not a rude thing, but you like knowing that, hey, I don’t care what you said it didn’t matter. I went out and I freaking did this. Look. Yeah, that’s awesome. Kudos, man. Seriously. Senen Garcia  20:12  Thank you. Michael Renfro  20:13  Thank you with in terms of getting to where you are, what do you feel like, would be the end? Some people call them mistakes. I prefer to call them challenges. But what do you think was the biggest challenge mistake, setback, whatever you want to call it, that you went through that, on the other side gave you the most traction? And in fact, is one of the reasons that you are now where you are. That makes sense. Senen Garcia  20:39  Yeah. The the one I kind of alluded to when, you know, probably two years in, right, we had, I wasn’t I wasn’t at a position was 2010. Michael Renfro  20:49  Is this 20? Am I Am I doing this? Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Senen Garcia  20:53  And we were, we were in a serious dry spell. And I mean, really bad. Every dollar that was coming in was going on to pay an expense. Right? I was getting I was, I was probably not even getting paid. I pretty much. Yeah, I was I was just living off savings burning through everything. It actually made me take a step back when I first started, I was I opened the firm right out of my, my bedroom was my my office, right? And I would tell people all the time, I would always say, you know, you, you know, because I lost a lot of friends. Actually, I found out who my friends were at that. Michael Renfro  21:33 Once I saw that you lost friends, you found your real friend. Yeah. Senen Garcia  21:37  Because the ones that I lost are the ones that, you know, because I wouldn’t go out because I didn’t have any money. Right? And the ones that kind of took that, as I whatever the case may be just disconnected from me, you know, because they would go out, they would do this, they would do that, you know, they want to start a family I want to, and I was I didn’t have a problem with what they you know, their life is their life and have that time and have that time. And I certainly don’t have that money. I mean, I would tell people when I started the firm, you know, my idea of going out was going going to Wendy’s and ordering from the Dollar Menu. That was that was the idea of going, I saw I could afford. And you know, then few years later had that issue where, you know, I was looking at the bank account every single day, you know, to make sure every single check got paid. I still was on a very tight budget. I mean, I tell people how much money I spent on a monthly basis. They’re like, how did you survive ago? You know what I figured it out? I mean, there was a there’s an individual who has a podcast, what’s his name? He always says something about you know, when people are in debt to have rice and beans, crap. guy’s name I think it’s, Michael Renfro  22:38   I can’t remember like it already. I like the I like the saying, yeah, he for me, it was it was ramen and Kraft macaroni and cheese and hotdogs. Like that’s, that’s, that’s the food that you eat. And I don’t care. Like, you know, when I say risk at all, I know the understanding of this. And even though I’m a father of four, and even a fifth one calls me Dad, I’ll still risk it today, if I believe the reward is truly worth the risk. Right? Which that means at times, that means here in the family, but you know, back to we’re gonna be in some ramen noodles. And we’re in some mac and cheese with cut up hot dogs. Because it’s better than nothing. You know? Senen Garcia  23:17   No, I you know, I It’s funny because I’ve one of the things that I I’ve done is I tried to do as I tried to associate myself and align myself with some some successful people. Um, because to me, there, there were I watched an episode of Joel Osteen. And it’s not to be religious or anything, but I just had an interesting statement. In one of his sermons, I just grabbed me when I was changing the channels. He said, there’s four people, there’s four types of people in this world. And he equated because I found that the reason why grabbed me is because I’m actually studying to be a pilot for fun. Michael Renfro  23:54   And he said to be a drone pilot for fun. Senen Garcia  23:56  Oh, there you go. And he said, there’s three, he says, there’s four forces that occur on a plane. He says, You have lift, you have thrust, you have drag, and you have wait. He was just like, you have four forces that go up against the plane, do you also have the similar forces and people in your life and you want to have the type of people that will lift and thrust you forward, and you want to avoid some people that will Michael Renfro  24:24   drag you down? That’s again, Senen Garcia  24:28 it was it was very thought provoking. And what I realized is, the people that will lift and thrust me are the people that I’ve couldn’t, I want to strive to be admired to be because those are the type they’re in the position they’re I wish to be in. And when I would talk with these individuals, you know, they would tell me, they went through stories one one, who was extremely successful, I mean, probably won’t don’t want to say his name because he’s she’s fairly well Michael Renfro  24:54   known, but I’ll reach out to her and interview while he was him. So I’m not an attorney, I That doesn’t matter, I still look an entrepreneur can teach, any entrepreneur can teach any lawyer how to run the business more successful. And I’m sure you agree with that. Because you’ve got to take off the lawyer hat. And you have to put on the entrepreneur hat, business owner hat, as we call it here. Like if you were if you try to wear it at the same time, you’re doing a disservice to yourself to both hats. Senen Garcia  25:25  No, I and I always tell people go look at the end of the day, because people will tell me, how do you do that and go, it’s a business at the end of the day, okay, it’s got a little bit of rules here and there. But at the end of the day is a business is a business, you know, you’ve the only difference here is I need a license to do this business. That’s it, you still have failed selling Michael Renfro  25:43   a service, and you’re still dealing with people, everything we sell deals with people, there’s nothing that’s bought that someone didn’t buy it. Senen Garcia  25:49   Yeah, no, it’s true, you still have to manage, you have to you have to manage people, you have to manage your expenses, you have to room budgets, actually Michael Renfro  25:57   more of a business, when you become the business owner of a law firm, right? Like you. And what I mean by that is, you realize that you’re gonna wear that lawyer hat, probably like 20, maybe 25% of the time, and be wearing the business hat the bulk of the time, because that’s what you need to do to run the business properly. And it’s Senen Garcia  26:15 funny, I’ve talked to so many attorneys, and I tell them that, you know, because a lot of them, in many cases, they started a business, in some cases out of necessity, because they couldn’t get a job or, or they felt that they weren’t being treated fairly. And I always counsel them in a way and I say, Listen, you’re because they wonder like, why isn’t my business growing as nice as because you’re spending too much time being an attorney? And they don’t understand that. What are you talking about? So what I am not anymore. Michael Renfro  26:43  That’s what you say, that’s what you sell. And you only need to have that hat on when you’re talking to your clients for billable hours. Or working on a case, you know, for research. I mean, and you understand what I’m saying. But when you’re that’s the only time you really need to do it, when you think about it that maybe boils down to like two hours out of your entire day when you’re a business owner when you’re when you own that practice, right? Senen Garcia  27:05 No, and I tell people all the time I go look, you’re there’s a difference between being self employed. And being a business owner. When you’re self employed. You are the engine, you’re everything. That’s not what you want to be you want to be a business owner, you want to be in a situation where you’re not around, you’re somewhere else and the business runs. And, you know, I always was, you know, when I was in college, there was a course that we took called strategic manager, I never forget this lesson. They said, running a business is like running a military and war. And they would always say the business the people that are you know, the top level people are like the generals. Right. And one of the things that the professor goes is tell me, you know, give me a famous general. And the only general that, you know, we could think of at the time was Schwarzkopf which you know, I kind of somewhat dates us, but me anyway. But he goes, How did you ever see him? On the front lines? And we would say no, you Where was he? He was either in a in a base far away from the war zone or not even there, maybe even here Michael Renfro  28:11   you might be right, exactly might be here in the US sitting in Washington. Senen Garcia  28:16  Exactly. So he says what’s the point he goes a point is is you’re the the generals job is to make the decisions. He has people there to do the other tasks, if he’s doing those tasks, he can’t do his important job, which is running the war front the war effort. Same thing in a business. If you’re doing the research, in a case of a law firm, you’re doing all the filings, you’re doing all the motions, you’re doing this, who’s running the firm, you need the time to run the firm, you cannot minimize that, or that evaluation is huge. Exactly. Delegation is, you know, I always I, I years ago, I had a radio show. And I talked about the definition of a strong leader and I said your five aspects of a leader to be truly effective. And I said, one is you have to empower your staff two is you have to learn to delegate. Three, you have to provide a vision. Michael Renfro  29:12   And I honestly it’s been a Senen Garcia  29:13   while so I’m trying to remember the other two, it’s been a long time Michael Renfro  29:17 that you felt like me with my seven steps that I wrote the seven steps of seller that I wrote back like 22 years ago, I could not recite those steps to you now I can tell you what each one means. Senen Garcia  29:29 It’s funny because I said you can do that in the law. I know you, you really you need to step away and I and I will tell you I go listen. Unfortunately, the moment you started become a business owner, your days as an attorney became number, right? You have to think you are the general now someone else has to go to court someone else. You’re gonna have to send someone else to do the research. You’re gonna have to send someone else to do this. Your way if there’s if there’s a choice between doing that legal work or running the practice, you’re gonna have to run a practice. Yeah, at the end of the day, that’s, that’s where it has to be all but I love it well, then you need to go work for a firm, right? Michael Renfro  30:06  Just go B, go be a lawyer, then well, we all know what you like, you don’t don’t worry about running a business, you know? Yeah, I completely agree. And I want to come back because I know we went off on a tangent, that’s almost always my fault. So what did you learn from from the? and 2010? Senen Garcia  30:25 So he so when I was in 2010, I, you know, one of the things I learned is, is have faith, you know, continue the follow through, right, because I was worried that we were going to close shop. And I had to basically trust the process. Follow the system that I had set up, it’s going to work, there are going to be moments like this. And what I look back on when I when I saw that is is you know what, we survived that we survived a moment where we could have, we could have ended and we didn’t. And what’s Michael Renfro  31:01 more power? It’s, you know, that old adage, what doesn’t kill you makes you makes you stronger? Senen Garcia  31:05  Absolutely, Michael Renfro  31:06  absolutely. Business to me is no more than any entity. The difference is it doesn’t breathe oxygen and and flow blood, right. But it is a otherwise it is a living, breathing entity in the sense that it is full of motion full of moving parts, and the bigger they get, and the more people are, you know, part of that and it really does become that. So yeah, I think that’s Senen Garcia  31:27   funny because I do a lot of education courses with small businesses and growing businesses. And one of the things that I realized even with through my businesses, and I would tell people this, because it happens, and I would say owning a business is like having a baby in really so many ways. When it’s first born, think about when you have your first kid, you are on 24/7. If there’s an emergency, you’re the first line, anything happens you are the one bu Michael Renfro  31:54   not until it becomes an adult, which is around three that’s the difference as things move faster in a business. Right. Right, generally speaking, right? Senen Garcia  32:03  And then eventually it grows their issues. And I would tell them, because their biggest issues are is letting go. Yeah. And that’s a problem. It’s just owners and parents. You look at it, parents, no, because I don’t want to protect like, right, Michael Renfro  32:18 but you have to let go. I said the other day in a post. somewhere else. I was like, you know, and I don’t mean to sound religious, I’m more spiritual, just so you know. But I was like, the greatest gift that God ever gave us was the ability to let things go. Because if you don’t let it go, it will eat you the hell up. And it doesn’t matter what it is, when you’re talking about letting it go, no matter what the scenario, if you’re supposed to let it go, you’re better off mentally, physically, emotionally. So I think that that’s as awesome. So here’s, here’s a good one. What’s some of your daily rituals that you find most important and a typical day? Like, what’s maybe one or two even? But what’s something that like you have to do in order for you know, for you, for you to feel like that day is going to be successful? Senen Garcia  33:02 Well, step one is is at some point in the day, I have to exercise. You have to have your me time. Right. So I have to actually and I do that because it’s two parts, obviously. Yes, it’s for my health, but if I’m healthy, then everything will be okay. You know, because you are loving yourself. Yeah, you have to take care of yourself. So that’s step one. Step two, is I always try and plan out my day as much as possible. Gotta kind of have like a forecast. Exactly. These are the things that need to get done today. So I already have a game plan. After that, it’s about when to cut off. And if there’s anything that needs to be done at all right, you know, and just kind of close what this comes from when I started out. As I mentioned, when I started out, I started out, you know, at home, I didn’t have Office. One of the issues that I learned or one of the issues that I experienced was there was this no delineation. So one of the main reasons I got an office wasn’t so it wasn’t hubris, believe it or not, people think, Oh, you want an office because you wanted to feel poor? I don’t know, I got an office because ERATION I wanted, yeah, I wanted to hell at home, I want home to be a place peace. I don’t want to think about work. When I’m at home when I come home, I’m home. You know, so I have a cut off when I walk out this office. I don’t you know, I don’t I don’t want to know about Office. I mean, that’s why everybody you know, with the whole virtual everybody is virtual. And we have a lot of people that are virtual in the firm of for example, I’m just not a big believer not because I’m anti technology. Not I mean, hell, I’ve just not you like the separation of home and work. Especially, you know, Michael Renfro  34:46  I would say if you had started out the other way, right and had many years in a firm right behind the desk or many years in the office like many, many of them, you might end up you know, changing your opinion may be different but the fact It is when you started this, the grind all the hardest time for you was while you were at home. And when you finally get over that hill so to speak, that’s a reward I can I can get this. I can, I can now remove this from home, I only did this, like, you know, that would be my answer. Why did you why did you move out because I only wasn’t home because it wasn’t necessity. It was never what I wanted. It was necessity. So now I have the means and the ability to get the hell out of my home. Yeah, pretty much Senen Garcia  35:35  I in? So those are really the Michael Renfro  35:39 do you do that on the way home? Like, do you have like a little ritual in the car or however you travel home that kind of separates you from work to getting home? Or do you just once you get in the house, you’re like, ah works over. Senen Garcia  35:50  Now the moment I get out of the office, I close the door, I closed a closed work. Again, honestly, those are the real routines that I kind of do on a regular basis. And the reason why is pretty steps. That’s it and everything else is organic. And the reason why is I I like a little bit organic. I mean, I do a lot of structures in my life in terms of you know, reconciling and overseeing the accounts on a weekly basis and you know, your daily routines at home, you’re brushing your teeth and right Right, right. I like when it comes to my date, like my overall life. I like a little organic. I like a little bit of, you know, new things that happened what was because each leave it open is different. Yeah, each day is different. And you know, Michael Renfro  36:33 like we said earlier, I want to you can only you can only keep learning every day, if you’re willing to allow yourself to have those moments where you can, you know, take in other things and research or read or whatever it is that you do you know what I mean? Whatever it is exactly. What’s talking about those kinds of things. What’s uh I don’t like the word strange, but I’ll use it just because it tends to get the point across but what would you say is maybe a strange habit or a quirk or something like that that most people don’t know about you? That’s a good question. Senen Garcia  37:14  Well, I’ve been trying to promote it more. But well first of all, I’m you know, the ones who know me know that maybe like the generic public may not know, right? I love I love the outdoors. I love the I mean, I’m I love the ocean more than anything else. I have a divemaster all night, and I started a nonprofit to help promote the restoration of the coral reefs here in the Miami area. Very cool. So that’s that’s probably my, my passion project, if you will. And then I’m focusing on I wouldn’t say it’s, it’s not strange, that’s for sure. Michael Renfro  37:54   Work or a hobby, but that kind of qualifies as the same. It’s something that most people don’t know about you like you said the generic public wouldn’t know that about you. I’ll share this only because I keep this picture right up here. But my father back in the time when I was just before I was born, he was one of the guys that dove in the suit with the big he doesn’t have his horn here. But he was a suit diver. Just to give you an idea he was telling me the story just recently I only mentioned it because I know you’re a diver. But his his deepest scuba dive and he was told by his commander at the time, he’s he’s like, look, we’re gonna go to 130 You’re not supposed to go past 100 with scuba, but we have to do this and we’re going to do it and we’re going to be okay. And it was like okay, and did it My father made that dive which I just think he’d obviously went much diver with the suit or deeper with the suit but to go 130 with scuba I was like are you kidding me? I had no idea I had no idea I mean these divers which you guys all you guys are really just it’s amazing because I would love to go down there but quite frankly I have a I have a thing with let’s just say breathing is my my number one fear that I’m gonna go out by either suffocation or drowning, right so I probably have a little extra fear of the thought of going deep underwater with only an apparatus I won’t deny it. Senen Garcia  39:16  I will tell you that I mean I I never from the very moment I I took my first open water basic class where I’ve went underwater i I felt so at ease Michael Renfro  39:27   I was good. I’ve heard that it feels you feel very free down. Yeah. Senen Garcia  39:32 Yeah, it’s it’s it’s hard to explain but I never felt even like I I even got to the point I’m so comfortable I’ll I’ll take my regular I mean you’re not they tell you not to I mean obviously I drove for God knows how many years and so many times so it doesn’t you know I’m gonna probably different and I’m technically a diving professional now. But I’ve pulled my regulator out of my mouth and I’ll just be out there I’ll I’ll have to communicate. Sometimes people aren’t getting me so I’ll, I’ll talk to words. And I’m, I noticed that I’m so relaxed that, you know, sometimes I kind of have to go, Hey, you got to put this back in your mouth at some point, but I’m not even really. It doesn’t bother me. I actually I, I would tell people that my favorite dives are at night. And people are like, Oh my god, are you crazy? Did Seattle? Honestly, it’s a whole different world. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so peaceful. It’s so serene. Michael Renfro  40:24   Do you take a light with you for just minimal understanding? You just take lights because Senen Garcia  40:29 you don’t want to? Honestly, I take the lights because I don’t want to bump into the refund break something because that’s honestly Michael Renfro  40:34   don’t want to you don’t want an accident that just can’t foresee got it? Senen Garcia  40:37   Yeah. So I take the light in one time. What what? My instructor for my advanced course. Did that I do now every time we do on a cave, is I’ll take everybody into a cavern. And I’ll tell them to shut off all their lights. Just didn’t ever just shut them off. And it’s pitch black when I mean lack it is no you can’t see any Michael Renfro  40:59   almost sensory deprivation. Yeah. Senen Garcia  41:03   And I am at complete peace. Like if you’re you’re not secure. Hi, opposite. I am so relaxed. I could probably fall asleep. That’s how relaxed I am. And then of course, they’ll be the first one that freaks out turns his lights on and he’s out of there. But I was like, you know, it’s um, I have no problem actually. I prefer I prefer doing Rex especially them at night. It’s you see a whole different cast of animals as opposed to in the day. Oh, yeah. Michael Renfro  41:30 Yeah. Have you ever have you ever considered doing the sensory deprivation tank? Senen Garcia  41:37 I’m thinking what is the um, thing? I’ve heard of that one? Michael Renfro  41:39 Have you not heard of this? Dude, this is right up your frickin alley. I almost dropped the F bomb. I’m sorry. But this is right up your alley. So it is a tank. And there should be one in Miami, you’re a big enough city probably find somebody who has one. But essentially this tank turns off every sensor sensory that we have. So you do not feel you do not see you do not hear you do not smell. You do not taste. It’s complete sensory deprivation. And it allows their mind to go wherever the hell it wants to go. People compare it to the strongest trip they’ve ever been on. And these are people that have done you know, heavy duty psychedelics, they’re like psychedelics have nothing compared are nothing compared to a sensory deprivation tank. Hmm. Sounds interesting. There’s a movie about it. The late William Hurd who just passed but he did a movie, one of his first big hits actually was called altered, altered states. And that entire movie is about the concept of being in a tank and he goes into the tank and what he sees you know, so I won’t give it away. But that the still a good movie today. I think it’s like 1981. But it is a it is a it definitely will open your eyes as to what that is all about. I see. I think you would enjoy it. What’s the craziest thing you’ve ever done? Senen Garcia  43:03 Craziest, craziest, that would be rock climbing in Costa Rica without a harness or anything, just a rope. And we climbed all the way up to the point where the clouds were below us. Michael Renfro  43:20 Oh, and I couldn’t breathe. Oh, wow. That is crazy. You’re insane. Senen Garcia  43:27 I had a blast on that trip. Michael Renfro  43:29 I bet. Did you get some? Was it at a time when taking videos and all that stuff was was normal? Did you get some pictures and videos? Senen Garcia  43:36 We got some pictures we were Michael Renfro  43:39 how much gear right? I’m assuming. Just yeah, we didn’t Senen Garcia  43:42 have any key. I mean, this is this much. This was a 97. So Michael Renfro  43:46 okay, so this was also before the onslaught of having a camera wherever you go. Senen Garcia  43:50 Exactly. Yeah, we you know, we had some count. I think our the extent of our cameras was before and after. Right. I remember I took a pair of hiking boots that I had just bought. And clearly they were they were commercial. They were just for the retail level. They were not really meant for that because I destroyed them that they were worn out Michael Renfro  44:10 in one day. Senen Garcia  44:14 But yeah, it was fun. It was it was actually a little bit nerve wracking in one sense, because we really did get so high that I was honestly having a hard time breathing. Right, Michael Renfro  44:23 right. And you’re like, What 1314? Well, somewhere in that range 12 1314 one. See. If you’re above the clouds, I mean I sit here and look at we were we were at their peak. Pikes Peak is is right about almost 14 Right? And the clouds will come down I’d say about I’m guessing somewhere in the range of maybe 2000 feet down so Senen Garcia  44:49 we were definitely we were in an amount called Monteverde South America, right, you know in central Oh, Central American. Sorry. Yeah, and Through the I would say we were easily more than 2000 feet, that’s for Michael Renfro  45:05 sure. No, I know that you are more than two. What I’m saying is, you will probably do, if you were Well, depends on how low the clouds get there. You know what I mean? And what the average land is there. But I would say you were probably in the neighborhood of at least, if you were having trouble breathing. That doesn’t even start until 1000. Yeah, we were. And so you had to be like nine, I’m guessing nine, maybe even 10 Or even higher. Because even though you have trouble after eight, it usually takes like a day for you to start to realize it right? Like, yeah, because I was at 10,000 feet at Breckenridge to 10,500 and I got altitude sickness, but I didn’t feel it the first day, the first 24 hours. I was completely fine. So I’m guessing Seriously, just based on my knowledge of everything, that you were probably closer to like 12, maybe even even 13 If you were having that much trouble. Yeah, no, it was a day is quad too, right. Yeah. Senen Garcia  45:56 And, and I honestly, because I remembered it so much, because three years before that I had bronchitis and I, you know, obviously, and I, and I was going up there and I was just like, I was just what’s wrong, and they were telling me like, we’re no oxygen, you’re gonna it’s gonna take you a little longer. There’s actually a picture of me passed out when I passed out, but on the ground because I needed to, like, Michael Renfro  46:21 exhaustion not not passed out. But exhaustion like, lay here and get some breath. Senen Garcia  46:25 Yeah. And it didn’t catch my breath. And it was hilarious. And yeah, that was there was one little, there was a little hiccup, I took a false step as we’re going up the rope and I lost footing. And I’m holding on to the rope. And obviously, now I’m midair, holding on to the rope, and I crashed into the wall. And obviously, I get my footing and I keep climbing up. But you know that you look back. I remember looking down briefly, and I remember going that’s a long way now, if I let go. And of course they’re screaming up to me. They’re saying, Whatever you do, don’t let go of the rope. And I’m like, Yeah, no kidding. Michael Renfro  47:04 Yeah. Like, that’s the last thing. Yeah, probably, I think now’s a good time to let go. It makes sense. So where are you? Where are you originally? from growing up? And what was it like growing up? Senen Garcia  47:17 Originally from New Jersey, gotcha. Um, growing up, like I said, around this hizzoner’s From on both sides of my family, because my, my father’s side, they like my, my bra, my shoes. My uncles, and my dad had, you know, through getting help from my grandparents opened up a gas station slash auto shop. And they’re, you know, my father and my uncle is passionate time was repairing cars. So they bought on this shop, because they said, Well, if you’re gonna do this, at least make money doing it, which they were all about. And they loved cars. So it worked out for them. And then of course, the other uncle, he got into every single business under the sun and then eventually got into real estate. And then on my mom’s side, they were all if they weren’t had their own practices, a doctor or a lawyer, it was, you know, development, real estate development, and they were all being developed. In fact, now I’m, I’m into real estate myself. You know, we own about seven properties and possibly knock on wood, possibly working on a first development deals. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it was it was definitely learning things about them that I didn’t even realize I was learning. Michael Renfro  48:43 Right. And when we move, almost like to say osmosis, right? Yeah. Just learning it by being subjected to it and around it your whole life. Senen Garcia  48:50 Yeah, I mean, I just it was like, that was you’re supposed to do you know, I never I never saw myself working for someone because I could never see myself working for someone because that’s not what I was Michael Renfro  49:00 accustomed to. That makes sense. So, just a couple of few, just a few more here real quick. So who would you say is a a mentor and what’s their best advice? Senen Garcia  49:13 Hmm. Well, mentors, I’ve had a few you know, a couple of you feel like yeah, my so my father would always be like, Just do it. You know, don’t worry about just just you know, if that’s what you want to do, do it. So that’s one thing I and that’s that’s actually one of the reasons why I always I never say no to an opportunity I’m not saying I’m automatically say yes, but I always give everything as an opportunity to look at it. I don’t I Michael Renfro  49:44 don’t say no based on fear or risk. Let’s just throw it away. Senen Garcia  49:48 I’m going to run numbers I’m going to look at it if it’s if it’s you know, everything hits I why not? You know, a lot of let me tell you when I bought these, these first few properties, I had a bunch of people well I had my own mother telling me about opening a firm, she thought I was crazy. And they were saying every time I’ve always heard someone tell me no, or say I can’t, I usually makes me want to do a more. Exactly. Now I’m just gonna do to prove you wrong. And up till now, I’ve been able to do that because now I bought, I bought these properties. Oh, that’s a crazy ideals property there. And now they’re like, Oh, can I get on your next deal? I was like, Oh, what happened to I thought it was a bad deal. It’s like, well, I see it making money. Well, that’s the reason why I did my numbers if it works out. So that was one. There was another gentleman many years ago. And he was he’s an interesting story. He was an he is an accountant. He was a CPA. And he was running a company, he was doing the books for a company, store cold storage facility. Out West, they were, but their offices were here in Florida. And apparently, there was some funny business that he wasn’t aware of that was being done behind his back. And there was a bunch of investors that had found out about and they were going after the CEO or whatever, and the CEO, who was the plurality owner, not the majority, but the plurality owner said, Look, I’ll sell you my interest. If you if you just don’t make try and get them to go away, which he got him to go away, he got the plot, he actually ended up because the business, he saw the business for what it was, and look, this business is a good business, everybody’s always a bad business. And he ended up buying out majority of those owners that had problems with the company, he kept in other companies doing absolutely, tremendously. And his his line was, is, I’ll never forget, he says owning your business is the best thing you’ll ever do. Don’t ever work for anybody, because you’re never gonna get paid your value. And then he followed it up by saying, just remember this. And I guess that’s from his experience, he was never, ever let go of overseeing the numbers until the very last minute. You know, make sure that you don’t necessarily need to be, you know, in charge of the numbers. But but you need to look at them, make sure you look at them on a regular basis, because that’s how you avoid problems. And I see it a lot with firms too, because I would find, you know, in stories, where, you know, certain people were given access to certain accounts, and one of those was a trust account. And then all of a sudden, I’d find out I hear a story in the Florida Bar News where say, oh, such and such is now under investigation from the bar, because the entire trust account was depleted. Because this person gave the you know, a non lawyer signature authority. They took all the money and they disappeared. Yep. You know, so I always am looking at the numbers constantly. It’s it’s something that any business owner, lawyer not should always do. Michael Renfro  52:51  No, I agree. It just it’s really just keeping tabs on your company. Yeah. So you already kind of alluded to this, I’m curious, what’s your favorite? What’s your favorite podcast? Senen Garcia  53:01   Well, not to be facetious, but my Oh, nice. I like it. We I have a podcast, nothing to do with anything. It’s called the next course. It’s, the subtitle is, after dinner conversations in modern times, and very much, it’s, there’s no real rhyme or reason, we just, we just talk about whatever comes to mind very high level topics. They run the gamut on what it could be, we all really put a topic on it, we just kind of, Michael Renfro  53:35   you know, add, and then you go with whatever comes up on that, that. That time, I got a Senen Garcia  53:41   pretty much we and we’ve had topics ranging from as crazy as sounds, slavery to topics about what’s going on with, with society in terms of its control with technology, right? We haven’t had a lot of this. The most recent one was when we were talking about spirit spirituality, and how the lack of spirituality is creating a, a kind of like us destruction in our lives, so to speak, something along those lines. So why will Michael Renfro  54:29 we go I won’t go very far, but I’ll just say real quick. Having a higher power is a necessity for life or else it wouldn’t have been part of our life. Love to analyze that. Senen Garcia  54:42   And that’s, that’s one of the that’s one of the points that we we kind of allude to in there. And another aspect that we get into is how, you know, the degli that it’s not about organized religion, it’s about that, you know, and how we’re allowing the The structures of our, of our man self, so to speak, to kind of dictate what goes on and we have like a new deity and the deity is is not what it should be. Michael Renfro  55:14   I will say it again, in the simplest of terms and not go off too much on it just because we’re on a work podcast. But I’ll put it to you like this. I 100% agree. And I know that the best way of saying where we are headed right now, there’s a lot of disconnect. And technology, actually, it’s funny, he talks about both of those subjects, because they really are one of the same, a lot of what’s happening with technology is allowing the separation of spirituality in our daily lives. You know, it’s one of the reasons why, and I know, you didn’t ask me, but, you know, part of my daily thing is, I have motivational apps and other things like that, that I, you know, I check in with every day and do affirmations and meditations and things like that. Because I don’t think we, you know, as as a society, we’re not doing it enough. There’s not enough self reflection. Right. And I’m sure you love this adage, I just kind of have a feeling talking to you. But if I’m not the problem, there is no solution. The only thing I have control of and in my entire life is me. Right? A lot of people didn’t get that seen. I don’t know if he ever saw Tron Legacy. But she ends up giving up right? And the guys like, What is she doing is taking herself out of the equation. Just that simple. Like there’s, you know, a fine line, if you will, and we could go on for hours on that. So I will I will stop. I’ll make this the last one. But what’s your favorite tool? And it can be a piece of software. But what’s your favorite tool that is an everyday must? tool, you know, for you and your practice? Honestly, as you saw on us a few Senen Garcia  56:57 I am a little different. Because if you were to ask this question five or 10 years ago, I’d give you a different answer today, honestly, Office, Microsoft Office is the best tool that I use. You know, we have paralegals now, you know, attorneys that go to court, I would probably say they’d say, this particular software, but for me, simple office gets the job done. Now, nowadays I you know, I don’t really use a lot of the software or the tools as much anymore, because you’re the Michael Renfro  57:32 business owner see? Yeah. And I get it. I get that. And that makes sense. That office is what you use the most probably, specifically outlook is your if you’re if you’re anything like the folks that I know you’re on Outlook, probably 80% of the day and it stays open online. It just stay well. Yeah. Senen Garcia  57:50   Yeah. And it’s funny because we have our our email is is powered by Gmail, Google. And so I have it in two levels. And I have it on the outlook, which I honestly prefer the platform on Outlook. And then we also still have the Gmail. Michael Renfro  58:06  Login to on Yep. Yep. It’s funny. Everybody’s different, but I use Outlook on the computers. Right? But I use the 365 now so it’s just a tab. Right? And then on my phone though, funny enough, only only iPhone I you. I love that I love the iPhone mail client. I don’t like the mail client. On the computers. I just like it on here. So even my Gmail accounts all mine run through the Apple mail client, so kind of fine. Anyway, listen, man loved having you. Thank you so much for the time. Just on a side note, please know that we will be sending you an email when this goes live. It’ll probably be if it’s before eight weeks, I would honestly be surprised because I know for a fact that I’ve got at least eight or nine maybe even 10 ahead of you that have not come out. But it is weekly. So they’re now out every week. But you will get an email when this is out. Okay, sounds good. Thanks a lot, man. Have a wonderful day. Stay blessed and stay lifted. Same to you sir. Outro  59:08   Thanks for listening to 15 Minutes. Be sure to subscribe and we’ll see you next time.

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